AIBU to think a junior probationer’s month abroad request is unreasonable?

[estrogone]

We have a junior in our office who’s only been with us about three months and is still on probation, where the expectation is mostly office-based work. They briefly mentioned in passing at one point that they might travel overseas, but there was never any proper discussion or approval before the trip was booked.

They’ve now come back and advised the trip is already booked and confirmed for nearly a month overseas, in a time zone 10 hours away. They proposed a range of adjusted working arrangements, including shortened hours and overnight work, so they can continue working remotely while away.

I haven’t approved the shortened hours or alternative arrangements and have asked them to demonstrate how they realistically intend to maintain service levels and cope with working nights while effectively on holiday overseas.

I am a lot WTAF to four weeks of leave for someone who has only been with the business a matter of months and is still in probation.

AIBU to think this is request is out of order?

Do you actually think this person would work 8 hours a night 5 nights a week and sleep most of the day whether it’s a holiday or seeing family? You think they’re going to fly all that way for a month but only really see the family/friends for 8 full days (weekends) and the odd meal during the week?

If a junior employee going away for a month would threaten the livelihood of 14 other people, then you really need to look at your business practices. It would also mean that they weren’t quite as disposable as you made out.

I’m not sure why people like you ask for opinions on this board when you clearly have made your mind up.

Obviously their request is ridiculous.

I would tell them they can take it as a mix of annual and unpaid leave on this occasion, but that in future all leave must be requested in advance before booking.

Or you can just say no, they can’t go whilst during their probation, and can’t take annnula or unpaid leave at all (including this time) there’s prior approval.

Exactly, they’ll dip in, answer a few emails and then go and get some kip!

@TwinklySquid Most companies want to know if a holiday is booked when someone is appointed. It’s not acceptable to come along later and ask for excessive time off, unpaid or otherwise. It’s nothing to do with work life balance. It’s to do the honesty and being aware that this isn’t acceptable. Of course they won’t work effectively on holiday and what about everyone else? The op is right to flag this up and look closely at company policies when a new employee has taken the piss.

@estrogone Presumably you have performance management, training for new employees and policies about wfh? This presumably means the employee won’t get the training and is in breach of the wfh agreement? Can you not look at this from a discipline point of view and terminate the appointment? They are not meeting the contracted requirements surely?

I think they know exactly what they've done, their behaviour indicates a high degree of manipulation and disingenuousness. Not someone I would contemplate giving a second chance, no matter how promising they appeared at interview.

Yes, and sack the piss-taking probationer if the temp replacement is better. She's a liability.

They have responded to day that they assumed a passing comment was implicit approval.

Either they are a bit hard of thinking and genuinely don't have a clue what it means to have a job, or they are utterly entitled and are seeing how far they can push it. The fact that they sent the original message after you'd left for the day suggests to me the latter. But either way, if I were you I would no longer be considering offering unpaid leave. I'd tell them they either turn up for work or they can consider themselves to be no longer working for me.

I think you need to be careful that you don’t set a precedent with unpaid leave. What if parents now ask for a month unpaid to cover school holidays? A nightmare if you have several parents asking for same time period. After all, if you have it to someone new while still on probation then they are reasonable to expect that they would get it.

Was the trainee apologetic at all for the inconvenience etc in their message? I think that’s key.

I have to say that I think you’d be better saying no to unpaid and they either go on holiday or stay with your firm.

Parent can request a month's paid leave though, they don't have to be given it at the times they ask for but it can't be refused overall

Yes but if they aren’t given their request for a months paid leave then they will want it unpaid and would likely feel hard done by if they don’t get it after the new hire was given it etc. That’s a problem if you have a few parents wanting at same time - will not create good feeling if the OP sets precedent by allowing new starter to do it and not letting everyone do it.

If I worked there and saw a new starter behave like this and be given a month unpaid, I’d not be happy to not be given the same.

Sorry the parental leave I was referring to is unpaid, not paid! In case anyone was getting excited 😃

After their comment that they assumed a passing comment was implicit approval I’d refuse the unpaid leave offer and terminate their employment. They’ll only get worse and be trouble. As pp said suppose your other employees find out you’ve given them a lot of unpaid leave. They won’t be happy the new person is getting preferential treatment, well I wouldn’t be if I worked at your company. Let them cancel and either get a refund or lose out financially. I can’t believe their brass neck and assumption tbh.

Op this employee is taking the pure steam off your piss. Its commendable youre considering approving their unpaid leave but honestly? People like this just get worse.

I predict the next problems you have with them will be they can't get back from leave when they are supposed to. Then if you offer sick pay they will be ill when they get back Then you will have performance issues. Then they will be off sick again. In that order.

I think you are being over kind. This person is being disingenuous at best. You have to be able to trust your staff.

They have responded to day that they assumed a passing comment was implicit approval.

Longer term, this person sounds a bit arrogant, and a potentially problematic colleague.

Bollocks. I’ve got a nearly 25 year old and she is definitely aware of what is acceptable and not in the workplace even though she is just starting her first job (trainee accountant). And my younger daughter who is currently working in hospitality whilst finishing her A levels which she first failed due to mental health issues that started during covid. She also understands how the workplace works. So 💁🏻

It’s almost like people have different experiences … weird that 🙄

Age has nothing to do with it really. She's just a chancer. I've met them in all age groups.

Again bollocks. 25 is not a young age to be in the workplace. If they don’t understand how a workplace works then they deserve to lose a job.

They also aren’t from Australia. Different culture?

Unpaid leave and restarting probation was going to be my suggestion. I'd start formalising things in writing asap, just in case.
And hope they quit while away.

Yeah I think thats incredibly fair. Allows the employee to show this is a one off misjudgement and they still really want the job yet also allows OP to guard against future dipshittery.

How does their culture mean anything only that they’d like to see their relatives? When you move to a western country you get to know about the culture of that country. I’ve worked with people from different countries and cultures and they didn’t assume they could wfh abroad or take unpaid leave shortly after starting the job. They valued their jobs and respected where they worked.