Husband threatening divorce over a holiday.

[KiggiCalli]

I would like to take my daughter to Africa on holiday. For context, I am Black British and my husband is white. He does not like long-haul flights and is refusing to agree to the trip. His view is that because I visited South Africa four years ago, there is no need for us to travel to Africa again, and that we should choose a closer destination such as Europe instead.
My daughter, who is of mixed African heritage, has never been to Africa and is devastated that she is not being allowed to go.

My husband is threatening to divorce me, should I go ahead and book the holiday?

Why do you assume so😒.

Sounds about right.

@KiggiCalli , I'd call him on his bluff, because no-one worth keeping threatens divorce over this.

Do you have family there? Is there a reason you’re going to South Africa specifically?
Have you had big family holidays since your last trip to South Africa?

I’d be pretty peeved if my partner unilaterally decided to take our child somewhere we had already been.
I suspect there’s more to this though?

A parent can take another child out of the country for a holiday without the other parents permission, they can't take them permanently. If the husband wanted to block all travel they'd have to get a specific court order, which would be rather drastic and not something a court would agree (usually only if there's specific circs, eg likelihood of a child not being returned, or being taken abroad for marriage)

I understand it might feel a bit tenuous if the country to visit isn't related to the child's heritage, but I think it's still very worthwhile for a child to visit a culture different to where they live, and I can imagine it would be very powerful for a Black teen to visit somewhere where the majority of people looked like them too.

Exactly this.
We are an Indian-European marriage and our children spend 6-7 weeks a year in India and my home EU country. I cannot imagine not doing this and I don't understand OP's husband at all. Was he blind when he married her?

Does have to be this year? Why not when she's older, after finishing school or before starting work etc

Divorce is extreme but from your side how compromising have you been? What’s his reasoning- worried about cost or safety, doesn’t enjoy the heat, has a different style of holiday in mind etc?

If you can easily afford it without sacrificing other things or taking on debt then surely a compromise is possible. What does he need from a holiday and can that be incorporated into the trip? Obviously Africa is a big continent with something for most people. Even if he can’t be sold on Africa can you holiday in Spain or Gibraltar for two weeks and you and your daughter take 3 days or so to go further south while he stays in Europe?

I’m afraid family holidays always involve compromise and I can only imagine for him to start threatening divorce, he felt you were not taking his preferences into consideration on any level. Is that true?

I’d be the one divorcing him! This is very controlling. Does he try to dictate / threaten over other aspects of your life?

@KiggiCalli My daughter, who is of mixed African heritage, has never been to Africa and is devastated that she is not being allowed to go.

I want to visit a very safe African country that I have no heritage too whatsoever,

This is all very confusing. You said it's for your daughter who is of "mixed African heritage" (which means absolutely nothing, because Africa is a huge continent full of many completely different cultures and ethnic groups), but now you are saying you want to visit an African country which you have no connection to.

If you have no connection to it, then the "heritage" thing becomes irrelevant. It would be like if you had Italian heritage and you wanted to take your daughter to Germany because Italy and Germany are both in Europe. It makes absolutely no sense.

This OP. You've admitted you don't have heritage from the country in question so this is nothing to do with your personal heritage it's just that you want one destination and he wants a different one and you are using your ethnicity to try and push the destination you prefer!
Africa is a massive continent with very varied cultures and heritage, if this is not the country of your heritage it's not like it's an experience for your daughter in learning about her heritage, it could be utterly different, Nigeria is wildly different place to Egypt and different again to Kenya!

On this basis I think you are both being unreasonable and stubborn over what is ultimately just a holiday destination choice.

Africa isn’t a country

Read the rest of the OP's posts
This is not a country related to her heritage at all! It's just a country in Africa that she has no ties or links to!

I am surprised how many people are saying how controlling he is being, because I think both of you are! You are demanding to go to this place, he is threatening divorce if you do (presumably because you are not listening to him?) not saying what he is doing is ok but I don't think what you are doing is either.

You are a married couple, there has to be compromise.

I really disagree with the people saying OP can only justify this trip if she's from that specific country.

Her heritage could easily be from somewhere it's not currently safe to travel (Sudan, Somalia, DRC etc.)
Even as a white woman I can see how it's important to give OP's mixed daughter the experience of being around people who look like her. It's also something OP is paying for herself and daughter is already excited. There are plenty of reasons to travel and culture yourself and your kid, it doesn't even need an excuse.

Given OP's husband has suggested Vietnam it's pretty clear it's not about distance and more about him throwing his toys out of the pram because he doesn't personally care about wherever they're going. A reasonable person could compromise by doing the African country this year and Vietnam the next. But a reasonable person does not threaten divorce over a holiday mismatch.

I’m not sure about that, for example for South Africa specifically “3.2 Where only one parent is travelling with a child, (or children), each child has to produce a valid passport, a BC or Equivalent Document for each travelling child and the Parental Consent Affidavit from the non-travelling parent whose details are recorded on the BC or Equivalent Document.”
In practice they might not ask, but they can.

I agree with your first sentence however OP has no heritage link to the country she wants to visit.

I’m on the fence about this. I visited another African country (where there were direct heritage links). We planned carefully. Both parents and extended family and DC from here all travelled together and we were greeted and supported by local family at the other end. It was wonderful. I wouldn’t have taken DC if father objected or didn’t want to come along.
The way I understand it if either parent objects then the other parent really shouldn’t be taking the child out of the country without consent/agreement. Unless there is a child arrangement order in place stipulating you can do so by a judge. Which wouldn’t be the case for you -as you are still together at the moment. Why risk your marriage for this when it seems you don’t have family you are visiting over there anyway. Unless I’ve misunderstood. Father has PR and with that his rights….

Can I just say that what I find frustrating about a lot of threads is that a woman's earnings are often classed as hers alone, but a man's earnings aren't. If a woman does something, it's OK , if the man does exactly the same it's not.
Just to be clear, I find all of this story odd. Why did the OP go to South Africa 4 years ago but not take the daughter then, for example? There is I feel, a lot missing here.

If he’s so pathetic as to threaten divorce because you want to visit somewhere he doesn’t I would tell him to crack on

The petty in me would refuse any holiday suggestions he has for the next year or so to make the point he can’t dictate and threaten like this

As someone from a non-British heritage, I say ignore him and book the trip. If he divorces you then you're well rid of him. He doesn't want you to go not because he thinks you're going to run off with the child or he has "concerns about safety" 😒 (Always white people saying this) He doesn't want your daughter to connect too much with her African side, that's basically it. There's a very limited time for your child to get these experiences and connect with her culture, language, community and heritage before she's all grown up and feels like a stranger to that half of herself. She is exposed to her white heritage every single day.

She wants to go, take her.

If you threaten to divorce your spouse over a holiday disagreement, you're either using extreme means to control them, or you don't value your marriage very much. Either way, it's not a threat I'd be caving in to.

Seems unreasonable to not let you take your young one to see her heritage country. I have no links to SA but it’s definitely a bucket list destination for its history , culture and beauty. No advice except to calmly listen to DH’s qualms and try and counter them with your knowledge of the destination.

It's not her heritage country. OP has confirmed she has no family/heritage/personal connection to the country, it's purely a holiday destination.

I'm Irish and this is not the right comparison at all and is actuallypretty insensitive. As other ppl have commented, transatlantic slavery means that Africa is a very meaningful place for many people of African descent and South Africa is also just a very popular holiday destination in general. In my experience, my friends of colour who visit African countries find it very grounding and enjoyable. I am suspicious that OP may only be happy when he is in a pace where he can enjoy his White privilege and South Africa,.where he'll be in a minority may well make him feel threatened/uncomfortable. Why would he be willing to go to South East Asia but not Africa? Ridiculous

Why didn’t your DD go to Africa last time?
Did DH go too?

It massively depends on your finances and how much it will affect your AL.

I would not be happy if my DH wanted to spend £1000s on a holiday that I wasn’t going to enjoy.

However, if money was no issue then I’d absolutely want my DH to go wherever he wants to go.

Could you compromise by spending a night to 2 somewhere half way so it’s not so long haul?