AIBU to think a toddler should be allowed to sit while healthy adults stand?

[Thegoldenoriole]

Tldr: should toddlers stand while healthy adults sit on trains?

On the tube today, I boarded holding our 2yo DD by the hand, DH had pushchair and baby in the sling. It’s busy (South Kensington museums on a Sunday afternoon) so we didn’t get a seat. No drama, I manoeuvred DD down the carriage towards a pole and tell her to hold on to that and my hand and we travel one stop reasonably well wedged in. DH is half way down the carriage with a lot of people between us.

At the next stop, the seat in front of us opened up so I helped DD to climb up. NB: it was one of the fold up seats designated for a wheelchair user if someone needs it. However, no wheelchair present and the other two fold up seats had healthy young adults sitting in them.
DD had just got settled when a man says, very loudly, “would you like that seat?” looking behind him but pointing at my 2yo. I say hang on, she’s sitting there, he says something like “she can stand up, it’s for disabled people” I said “well she can stand but she might fall over” and he got huffy and said his leg hurt. Totally coincidentally, I’ve currently got a mildly sprained knee so just blurted out “well I’ve got a sore leg too!” and he said “well why don’t you sit down then?” so I did and put DD on my lap and he stormed down the carriage saying he was just trying to offer a seat to a lady.
I would absolutely have moved DD if a wheelchair user had boarded, requiring the full length of the fold up seated area. But AIBU to think that a healthy adult should be asked to move from a seat before a young child?
Just to preempt the question “why not keep DD in the push chair?” we had taken her out to help us get down the steps and walked straight onto the train. I have no real problem with her standing, it was more that it felt very much as though he was deliberately picking on the toddler sitting down, especially given he did not ask either of the other adults on fold up seats to move. But he was so self-righteous I’ve been left wondering whether this is some etiquette I’ve never absorbed, despite living in London for 10 years before having DD!

Well it was fairly obvious the toddler wasn’t travelling alone.

I would have sat down myself and put her on my knee, I wouldn't have given her the seat on her own, no.

OK, sorry, I missed that.

My son's disability is hidden but I'm not joking when I say that if he takes off his jacket in the tube, which he has actually done if in a lot of pain and refused a seat, people have actually changed carriages or got off at the next station. Hidden disabilities are real and I'd let him sit before I take a seat myself.

I have no problem with a 2/3 year old on a seat as they would struggle to balance so no I would not expect them to give up their seat for someone when healthy adults are all around.

We weren’t really making any choices at that point - just trying to get everyone on and secure as possible before the train started moving again!

I was brought up to think that children always give up their seat to adults, and I brought up my own children in that way, and my children think the same about their own children.

If I saw a 2 year old sitting in a seat while adults were standing I would expect the parent to remove the child, hold the child's hand or otherwise restrain it so an adult could sit down, especially if they had a sore leg.

If you don't want to encounter people expecting your child to stand then you should sit in the seat yourself with the child on your knee.

Yes I totally get that. Sorry that sounds really hard 💕

what does it matter if the op had her on her knee or not one chair was taken up and op has stated if needed to move she woudl have moved her dd off the chair, the tubes get so busy and it would be easy for an adult not to see her and bump into her

with toddlers and little children I give up my seat

agree people can be very strange about children and seats on buses/trains/tube

Of course a toddler should have a seat. Healthy adults should give up their seats to a toddler. Toddlers balance or strength won't be as good. They are more likely to injure themselves. They are also unlikely to understand the risks so less likely to continuously hold on.

That man picked on the wrong little person. His mummy wasn't taken that rubbish. Sorry the man spread some misery to you today.

No, sit on an adult lap, thus freeing up two people in the standing space on train. Adults take priority over a small child as they can sit on a lap. 2 adults cannot sit on eachother to free up space. An adult and child can.

I didn’t make that assumption at all, as I have now addressed several times. He was making assumptions by demanding the 2yo move - hidden disabilities affect all ages.

It wasn’t so crowded that standing space was an issue. Me standing wasn’t causing anyone a problem.

he sounds awful! trying to push a little girl out of a seat. that's London though! people are arseholes there.

Two quite separate things here. First, it is odd for an adult to pick on a small child as it's obvious the parent will respond. Perhaps it was an indirect way of him expressing his opinion that a small child should not be sitting in a seat by themselves. Second, DD should have been on your knee, with you making clear that on the tube that's where she sits. I don't understand how standing holding your hand and the pole isn't secure (it isn't at two years old) but trying to crawl around the carriage is OK (that's not safe either).

Thank you! I’m not normally one for a public stand off but I was genuinely shocked by his attitude as much as the general point and just said exactly what was I was thinking 😅

Replies are weird. I give up my seat for kids, and I’ve seen many do the same on my commute to and from work, especially during rush hour. I have toddlers and ppl have always been kind to offer seats, even if we refuse, we are almost nearly always offered. I’ve never seen a kid get up for a healthy adult. Lived in London all my life. It’s fine, don’t worry about his man

Oh no the crawling wasn’t safe at all! It was really annoying 😅 today was actually the first time we had been on a tube since the baby was born but I think in future we will just have her firmly strapped in the push chair the whole time and try to navigate steps with her in it. But in the circumstances we were in, I do think having her seated was safer than standing. The man didn’t know we had a pushchair so while that’s a valid point in the abstract, it wasn’t relevant to his attitude.

When in London we often are on the tube in that area and my kid since he was a toddler ALWAYS got a seat offered. Kids aren’t stable enough to stand and you holding her and standing could be disaster.

There are people with poor muscle control, poor coordination, limited ability to stand for long periods, and limited spatial or social awareness that need to sit on trains and buses. Those people are children, and they have every right to use the seats too. If it’s possible for a parent to have the child on their knee that’s fine but the child also has a right to have their own seat.

Under 2 years old - on adult lap

After 2 years old - a seat of their own like on the airplanes.

Same here for my kids, almost always.

Not when adults who’ve paid for a ticket are standing. Not an absolute “right”, surely.

Keeping her in the pushchair is simplest. When I was in central London with DD in a pushchair, someone always offered to help with the stairs. (This was in contrast to being pregnant on the tube, standing in the rush hour and no-one offering me a seat.)

The point for me about a small child not occupying a seat by themselves is that they learn from being very small to be courteous to adults. When I see a small child in a seat, rather than on a parent's knee, I do think that the parent is missing the opportunity for the child to learn this, and storing up problems for later.

Absolutely this

It wasn’t so busy that you were taking up excess space with the buggy and the standing adult (you) who could have sat down but it was too busy to “wobble” back up the carriage and stick her in the buggy and there were no seats left for the “healthy”. You shouldn’t have wobbled down the carriage - she was safer in the buggy but you wonbled away from it. Next best would be an adults lap. Next best would be adult sits and toddler stands in between adults legs. Next best would be standing being securely held by adult. Then after all those scenarios it’s sitting on a flip up seat on her own.
Toddlers without buggies I think should be prioritised on their grown ups lap over “healthy” adults - but this kid had a buggy and there weren’t enough seats to go around (I know the bloke may not have known that but her own parents did).

In the olden days under 5s were free but were expected to sit on their grown up if seats were scarce (who cares if they gripe?) and over 5s paid half and were expected to stand.