AIBU to think a toddler should be allowed to sit while healthy adults stand?

[Thegoldenoriole]

Tldr: should toddlers stand while healthy adults sit on trains?

On the tube today, I boarded holding our 2yo DD by the hand, DH had pushchair and baby in the sling. It’s busy (South Kensington museums on a Sunday afternoon) so we didn’t get a seat. No drama, I manoeuvred DD down the carriage towards a pole and tell her to hold on to that and my hand and we travel one stop reasonably well wedged in. DH is half way down the carriage with a lot of people between us.

At the next stop, the seat in front of us opened up so I helped DD to climb up. NB: it was one of the fold up seats designated for a wheelchair user if someone needs it. However, no wheelchair present and the other two fold up seats had healthy young adults sitting in them.
DD had just got settled when a man says, very loudly, “would you like that seat?” looking behind him but pointing at my 2yo. I say hang on, she’s sitting there, he says something like “she can stand up, it’s for disabled people” I said “well she can stand but she might fall over” and he got huffy and said his leg hurt. Totally coincidentally, I’ve currently got a mildly sprained knee so just blurted out “well I’ve got a sore leg too!” and he said “well why don’t you sit down then?” so I did and put DD on my lap and he stormed down the carriage saying he was just trying to offer a seat to a lady.
I would absolutely have moved DD if a wheelchair user had boarded, requiring the full length of the fold up seated area. But AIBU to think that a healthy adult should be asked to move from a seat before a young child?
Just to preempt the question “why not keep DD in the push chair?” we had taken her out to help us get down the steps and walked straight onto the train. I have no real problem with her standing, it was more that it felt very much as though he was deliberately picking on the toddler sitting down, especially given he did not ask either of the other adults on fold up seats to move. But he was so self-righteous I’ve been left wondering whether this is some etiquette I’ve never absorbed, despite living in London for 10 years before having DD!

Good luck for your treatment @Tiff2026 that sounds really hard. Sorry to hear you are going through it.

Courtesy doesn't trump safety. If the child is on the parent's lap, the child is safe, as they would not be if standing, and at the same time courtesy is shown by the child not occupying the seat on their own, as it would not be being if the child did occupy the seat on their own and the parent stood.

It’s Clear you don’t think Ops child is the centre of the world. That’s definitely you. In your own head.

There’s absolutely no talking to you, but please rest assured as a result of discussing it with you I’ll be making sure I continue to put my kids on seats when they are available and they need one. Hope you have a VERY nice life.

1 seat taken, whether that is the child on it alone, or the child on it on parent's lap.

Parent standing over the child isn't taking up standing room space that another adult could take - if another adult was standing that close to me with my child on my lap they would be shoving their crotch or bum in our faces with their legs wrapped either side of mine. The only person who I'd be OK with that is my partner.

So you will be bringing them up with no consideration for others. Well done you. Then your kids will pass this down to their kids so by the time you are your children are elderly no one will give a toss about the elderly and disabled and untimately you will suffer. I bet you also push prams side by side forcing others to walk in the road because you carnt be bothered to move, that's the attitude I'm getting from you

No ops child is not the centre of my world, why would they be? My children are, which is why I'm bringing them up to respect others. It starts at 2, by using other alternatives like the pram on a busy tube. Moving aside when others need to pass on the street. When older they help more vulnerable people in supermarkets etc getting products down for them . As teens my kids actively help the more vulnerable in society. But if you want to raise a bunch of arseholes that's up to you, unfortunately. Your kids will be the ones that think the rules don't apply and rob shops

@Tshirtking 👏👏👏👏👏

I'll make a note to borrow some prams and link them together and push them all down the road in a big line.

Also, by the time my children are elderly I'll likely be dead. Get your dates right.

You know, you really are this ignorant. The fact is OP took a seat on a busy tube she didn't need, she had a buggy. Why are you not getting this obvious to anybody but you information? Look 71% now say op is unreasonable, take the hint.oh thanks for the clap for my teens, I'm very proud of the young men they are turning out to be as well, you know actual consideration for others.

Irrespective of whether or not you were right, please stop glossing over a key issue: not all disabilities are visible.

I'm not going to debate whether you should have had a seat. But please don't equate "healthy looking" with "healthy". It really does do a disservice to people with invisible disabilities. One of my biggest struggles is people saying "you look so well" without knowing my lived reality. I'm far from well. I actually experienced the same train dilemma (albeit outside of London) at the weekend when I was asked why I was in a priority seat. I was happy to explain my disability but shouldn't really have to. Also, I can look at my phone and also be disabled.

Jesus you sound like hard work!
75% yabu
OP: I'm not

I have repeatedly said I know disabilities and general health conditions that make it hard to stand aren’t all visible, and I would not assume anyone - adult or child - was able to stand just by looking at them. I really don’t think I can be any clearer on this point.

😂 tbf I’ve accepted both that toddler should have been in pushchair before boarding, and that some people think all adults - healthy or disabled - should have priority to sit while a toddler stands. I continue to disagree with the second point, but that was the opinion I was actually looking to gauge.
I have got frustrated with the many, many comments who chose to answer a question I didn’t ask, but I guess that’s mumsnet for you!

71% isn't 100% is it? Are you not too sure on maths?

And Mumsnet demographic is hardly reflective of the real world - there's a far greater percentage of uppity, ill-tempered and ill-informed individuals, than you would generally encounter going about your life in the usual way.

It's very apparent you aren't aware of maths. 71% is much larger then 29%. Agreeing with OP.

Ok. Have a good day.

👌

I'm out with you, you must have a great deal of time on your hands, unfortunately for me I don't and I don't think I've the same level as arrogance as you either so not much point in trying.

I hope you have a WONDERFUL life. Someone as perfect as you really deserves it😘

When talking about arrogance you need to take a long hard look at yourself

They are, but this all begs the question why the toddler was not put in the pushchair at all. There have been several reasons given why this wasn't possible: (i) they'd moved down the carriage so that they had a hand-hold. But why wasn't the toddler put in the pushchair instead of walking down the carriage?; (ii) the child didn't want to sit on her mother's lap after a long day. Well, I get that. But maybe the man didn't want to stand after a long day. It just seems that the OP was rushing and badly organised and expected other people to make exceptions for her lateness/lack of organisation and they didn't want to. We've all been there, (both being late/not wanting to help other people out because we are tired/in a bad mood). Seems like a storm in a teacup; he could have been nicer, so could the OP.

No one was right, no one was wrong.

Sit with her on your lap. No-one will object to that.

Toddlers should not have seats on their own they sit on their parents laps. Have no issue with giving up a seat for a toddler who sits on their parents lap but by that I consider under 4 yrs old. Once your child is at school, they are quite capable of standing on a train and holding on.

This is not about the South versus the North, it is not about being child unfriendly but about good manners and recognising that not all people big or small are safe to stand. Likewise those wearing baby on board badges when nothing showing. Happily give up a seat for a late pregnancy lady but seriously less than 12 weeks !

I speak as someone who has commuted through 4 pregnancies and taken 2 DCS on the tube to nursery till the age of 4. Only once did a woman ask me to take DC off a seat on a train ( not tube) when they were 4 with a plaster on his leg. She then proceeded to complain every time his plastered leg touched her - v difficult to bend your leg when the plaster is above the knee, hence why child was sitting in his own seat as again on my lap the leg stuck out. Her solution was I should stand and he sat!

Some people on both sides of the debate are just arses but expect me to give up my seat for any child over the age of 4/5 after a long day standing at work, then the answer is oiong to be no and no I do not respond to people saying if the kind lady moved then you could sit next to your friend and play!

My toddler nephew would not sit still on a tube seat. He’d be climbing on and off it. So his mum would plonk him in the buggy strapped in regardless of his complaining.