AIBU to think a toddler should be allowed to sit while healthy adults stand?

[Thegoldenoriole]

Tldr: should toddlers stand while healthy adults sit on trains?

On the tube today, I boarded holding our 2yo DD by the hand, DH had pushchair and baby in the sling. It’s busy (South Kensington museums on a Sunday afternoon) so we didn’t get a seat. No drama, I manoeuvred DD down the carriage towards a pole and tell her to hold on to that and my hand and we travel one stop reasonably well wedged in. DH is half way down the carriage with a lot of people between us.

At the next stop, the seat in front of us opened up so I helped DD to climb up. NB: it was one of the fold up seats designated for a wheelchair user if someone needs it. However, no wheelchair present and the other two fold up seats had healthy young adults sitting in them.
DD had just got settled when a man says, very loudly, “would you like that seat?” looking behind him but pointing at my 2yo. I say hang on, she’s sitting there, he says something like “she can stand up, it’s for disabled people” I said “well she can stand but she might fall over” and he got huffy and said his leg hurt. Totally coincidentally, I’ve currently got a mildly sprained knee so just blurted out “well I’ve got a sore leg too!” and he said “well why don’t you sit down then?” so I did and put DD on my lap and he stormed down the carriage saying he was just trying to offer a seat to a lady.
I would absolutely have moved DD if a wheelchair user had boarded, requiring the full length of the fold up seated area. But AIBU to think that a healthy adult should be asked to move from a seat before a young child?
Just to preempt the question “why not keep DD in the push chair?” we had taken her out to help us get down the steps and walked straight onto the train. I have no real problem with her standing, it was more that it felt very much as though he was deliberately picking on the toddler sitting down, especially given he did not ask either of the other adults on fold up seats to move. But he was so self-righteous I’ve been left wondering whether this is some etiquette I’ve never absorbed, despite living in London for 10 years before having DD!

Yes they are, which is why they should be strapped in a buggy or held on a lap. Not sat in a chair where a sudden jolt can throw them off the seat

But OP wasn't sitting - OP put the toddler on the seat, and stood in front (also my preferred method of child wrangling on public transport). Once the bloke kicked up the fuss, OP did sit and put the child on her lap. At all points in time, toddler and parent took up one precious for full fare paying adults seat, and OP was one full, fare paying adult!

But that's Google's AI...

TfL website is clear about travel, and priority seating.

https://support.visitorshop.tfl.gov.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/16465480622354-Travelling-with-children

Thanks you beat me to it. Yes it is AI, which has the disclaimer that it may contain mistakes.

What is the difference between the child on the seat while the parent stands in front of them holding the pole (close enough so that the seat can't move and the child can't fall off, and the parent taking the seat with the child on their lap?

They are functionally the same. But with a 2 year old, as a 5' tall woman likely with bag, the 1st was much safer for all of us, as I could put the bag on the floor and hold onto the pole, rather than holding onto a toddler and having nothing to stop me swaying about on the seat.

The seating is for ‘passengers with young children’. Not ‘young children’ who apparently are too grumpy to do what the Op wanted to do so she took the path of least resistance

I cannot believe certain posters have still spent all day arguing over this. Fortunately for OP and the rest of us, they aren’t the actual tube police and quoting incorrectly from Google doesn’t help that.

Back in the real world where most of us live, of course people let very small children sit down, it’s not the 1950’s. Everyone on public transport is inconveniencing someone else at some point. Even the perfect posters, though I’m sure they couldn’t fathom it

No I said we did our share as children. We were never expected to sit on public transport when adults weren’t seated. I think you will find that causes a certain reluctance to do the same thing for children now we are older.

What's the 50s got to do with it. Many of use are talking about experiences in the 80s, there's 30 years difference there.

I don't like the idea of a toddler having to stand on public transport. I think sitting on a parents lap is best.

We always had to sit on DM's lap when there was standing room only.

Honestly, at this point I think you’re just looking for something to argue about. I don’t think you even know what point you’re making anymore!

Toddlers are very likely to tabtrum
if shoved back in buggy when on an exciting choo choo train ride and no one wants to hear that if avoidable

No you need to get your facts right. The 50s and 80s where very different times , at least get your dates right. 50s after the war, people still on rationing, my parents weren't even born early 50s. 80s my childhood and teen years,the war wasn't even a thought. My mum's generation worked, no rationing. 50s and 80s completely different era, views had changed completely. You carnt compare the two.

For a lot of people it's an expected norm that on a busy tube a toddler would sit on their parent's lap, taking up one seat, not seat plus standing space plus buggy space. Same as on a crowded bus. Those fold down tube seats need quite a lot of weight to keep them folded down anyway so perhaps not that suitable for little ones on their own.

Let's get back to the topic. 2 year old had the pram, her mother's arms and could hold her mother's hand if she really wanted to stand . There where other options. To the poster who mentioned the tantruming child going into the buggy and spoiling the Choo Choo ride, please. Other people have needs to, not just tantruming child not getting their own way. The rest of the world doesn't feel the way you do about your child, they just want to finish their journey in some sort of comfort

Well then don’t take them on an ‘exciting choo choo train on a Sunday afternoon when it’s packed then

You can’t be serious?

Dates right on what??? What are you even talking about?

Does it help if I just say to you, your views are completely out of date? Are you clearer on that?

Im prob going to get flamed for this but after having to stand today on 2 tubes im at a breaking point. I’m in the middle of chemo for bone cancer and I hate the pity and performative sympathy from people so I make a real effort with my appearance so outwardly I appear very Healthy and robust but internally I’m mentally exhausted and everything hurts from a hair on my head to my toenails.
i had a session of chemo today and unfortunately I had to get the tube there and back. Who are you to decide if your child who could have sat in her pushchair or u or dh could have held in your arms is more deserving of a seat than me. And if I asked for the seat would u refuse unless I offered to open my NHS app and shown u my medical records. U choose to have a child and travel on the tube I didn’t choose to have cancer. Also I wouldn’t travel in a car with my young child without a car seat and even if my child was having a tantrum I wouldn’t allow them to sit unharnessed on the back seat or on my lap. Surely the safest option for your child is in their buggy strapped in,

Not the point of the thread but I had no idea you could leave prams up on the tube (never been on it). On trains around here you are expected to fold them.

So courtesy trumps safety? Thats a weird take.

No my views aren't out of date, ESp when I've been mentioning the welfare of the children in my posts. The children's safety when travelling. A drop down seat is not a safe option for a very light 2 year old. Is child safety out of date now? Who knew.

Oh sorry I must have missed the bit where OP said “very light two year old”. You are talking absolute nonsense. People stood up by the door where there is nothing much to hold onto is an absolute terrible place for a child in a buggy. She’d get people stumbling on her or whacked with a backpack. Sat down nicely with a parent stood over her is absolutely fine.

You’re bouncing between being concerned about safety and being enraged about parent entitlement. Pick your argument as right now it’s all over the place.

2 year olds are light when it comes to those flip down chairs, my child struggles to keep them down at 6 years old. Like I said she had 3 options. Hold the child, hold the child's hand or use the buggy. Ops not the first mum to take a child on the tube, I've done it many times and not once have I prevented another adult from sitting down by having a 2 year old in their own seat while other alternative are there . Ops child is not the centre of the world. Oh and don't tell me what I can and carnt say on a Public forum. You are not the forum police

But she is like a bag, in that she can be put on your lap. If all the seats in the train car are full and anyone is standing, anything that can be moved off a seat to create more room should be moved. Your toddler certainly didn't need to be forced to stand, but she had the options of being carried by you or your DH, sitting on your lap, or sitting in the buggy. None of the adults could do that. Given all those options, you chose instead for her to take up a whole seat unnecessarily, while you also took up standing room. Not efficient or considerate. The guy could have been nicer and less passive-aggressive, though.