AIBU to think a toddler should be allowed to sit while healthy adults stand?

[Thegoldenoriole]

Tldr: should toddlers stand while healthy adults sit on trains?

On the tube today, I boarded holding our 2yo DD by the hand, DH had pushchair and baby in the sling. It’s busy (South Kensington museums on a Sunday afternoon) so we didn’t get a seat. No drama, I manoeuvred DD down the carriage towards a pole and tell her to hold on to that and my hand and we travel one stop reasonably well wedged in. DH is half way down the carriage with a lot of people between us.

At the next stop, the seat in front of us opened up so I helped DD to climb up. NB: it was one of the fold up seats designated for a wheelchair user if someone needs it. However, no wheelchair present and the other two fold up seats had healthy young adults sitting in them.
DD had just got settled when a man says, very loudly, “would you like that seat?” looking behind him but pointing at my 2yo. I say hang on, she’s sitting there, he says something like “she can stand up, it’s for disabled people” I said “well she can stand but she might fall over” and he got huffy and said his leg hurt. Totally coincidentally, I’ve currently got a mildly sprained knee so just blurted out “well I’ve got a sore leg too!” and he said “well why don’t you sit down then?” so I did and put DD on my lap and he stormed down the carriage saying he was just trying to offer a seat to a lady.
I would absolutely have moved DD if a wheelchair user had boarded, requiring the full length of the fold up seated area. But AIBU to think that a healthy adult should be asked to move from a seat before a young child?
Just to preempt the question “why not keep DD in the push chair?” we had taken her out to help us get down the steps and walked straight onto the train. I have no real problem with her standing, it was more that it felt very much as though he was deliberately picking on the toddler sitting down, especially given he did not ask either of the other adults on fold up seats to move. But he was so self-righteous I’ve been left wondering whether this is some etiquette I’ve never absorbed, despite living in London for 10 years before having DD!

I think the man was just plain fucking rude - regardless of who is or isn't healthy/ able to stand - to offer someone else's seat to a random stranger, without actually asking them or their parent first if that would be ok. He's basically decided your toddler can't sit there and asked someone else if they want the seat. I'd be fuming tbh! But then I hate people like that.

Pushchair or your lap I think

THANK YOU! I think that’s exactly what left me so baffled. Who offers a seat someone else is sitting in to another person, regardless of their age??

I wish I’d left out the info about DH and the pushchair as it’s distracted from the reasonableness (or otherwise) of the actual interaction, in which the pushchair did not feature 😅 But in any case I’ve concluded that he was a nasty piece of work, and in future I’m just going to have DD locked and loaded in the pushchair before boarding!

Lots of people are remembering being brought up to give up a seat for an adult when they were children. But do they mean they did this as toddlers too? I remember my parents directing me, as a child of school age, to give up my seat for younger children and their parents as well as for older people.

If you can't offer your own seat and nobody else is offering, the better thing to do is surely to ask loudly, 'could anyone offer their seat, (as I am unable to)?' rather than to volunteer somebody particular, especially when the person being volunteered is a toddler so more vulnerable to injury standing on a train than a healthy adult or older child.

Surely, when it comes to the tube, you've paid to get from A to B, you haven't paid for a seat...

As an adult, and a parent, I couldn't imagine not offering my seat to a toddler! Even when I have had various mobility issues.

You do you. Personally I think that giving up your seat for a child when you have mobility issues is batshit

Adult and toddler = one seat on a busy tube because toddler can sit on your lap.

Kids who can stand should stand. If your toddler was grumpy, the best place for them was in the pushchair.

Children under 4 - yes, toddlers sit on parents lap. Am sick to death of being literally pushed out of the way by kids to get to seats which they then proceed to stand sit, stand sit.

Watched 2 entitled 6-10yr old boys take up two seats when there were 2 clearly old pensioners think early 80s standing and not particularly steadily. Their entitled mothers said they were tired.

Also if you come to London on a big day out, seriously think before you head home at 1700 in rush hour, yes it is packed and no your DCs will not get a seat so stop whining about it.

Children should never have a seat if an adult needs one! When did all this nonsense start,I notice it a lot these days,children prioritised over adults.Ridiculous.

Haven't read the whole thread but presume someone has already pointed out your assumption that the adults sitting in the fold up chairs were healthy. Not all disabilities are visible (similarly your sprained leg)...

"However, no wheelchair present and the other two fold up seats had healthy young adults sitting in them."

That aside, toddler should have sat in the pushchair or in your lap. You were taking up pushchair space, standing space and seated space on a busy tube. Pretty selfish.

As the mum of a toddler, holding a toddler on a rattling tube isn't easy or safe. My 2 year old weighs almost 14kg and can't hold him one armed for substantial time. I usually put him on my lab or keep him in the pram. There are spaces and seats which are specifically for old people and pregnant women or with young lap kids in addition to wheelchair areas.

I can appreciate how it appears batshit. 😆

Firstly, I guess I like to think that, as a grown up, I have the wherewithal and the brain development to know my own limits, and understand the risks around me (and how to mitigate them). Whereas, I'd assume most toddlers would have poor proprioception and would lack danger or risk awareness. A parent could hold them, but have you held a wriggly two year old on the tube before? Nightmare.

Secondly, I just think life is better when you're being kind to people. On those occasions that my mobility issues are playing up, I'd probably be a bit more stringent, but when I can (which is most of the time), I absolutely give up my seat.

Batshit in a kind way though!

The parent is responsible for the safety of their child. And being kind only works if everyone plays the same way 😬

You’re conflating different things here. I don’t know why some parents think children = automatic right to disability facilities. It’s not the same thing.

no one cares if children are seated in a normal seat. But I wouldn’t say a toddler is automatically entitled to a disabled seat merely because they’re a toddler ie without a disability. That’s where the conflict came from.

you’ve been in London for 10 years but surely, trying to travel at busy times with a toddler is a batshit idea? As a parent you should be considering alternatives such as driving surely. It’s more expensive but if you go for the cheap option, surely a cheap experience is expected such as seats not being available or needing to move for a disabled person or other passengers being irritating etc. you only need 10 minutes in London to realise that, surely

Push chair is safest for a toddler because you can strap her in and the sides provide some protection. A sudden emergency stop and a toddler standing or sitting in a tube carriage is going to go flying. I recently experienced an emergency stop sitting in that row and ended up crushed under three people. Luckily only a bit banged up but I’m an adult woman.

People in the U.K. are so anti child compared to the rest of Europe , there is no way a child would be made to step up for a lady anywhere in south Europe , children are protected and often given seats as are pregnant women omen and those holding babies because children are the most vulnerable. No way in hell would I what a child to risk injury instead on an adult

2yos are not safe to stand on trains or buses, and id loudly tell that to a man who thought they were whether it was my child or not. ‘Clearly you’ve never taken responsibility for a toddler so I hope you’re not actually a dad. Of course a 2yo cannot stand up on a moving vehicle.’

YANBU to let her take the seat, and he was a twat to expect a toddler to get up, and how he went about it, but I would have sat down and put her on my knee so she is protected herself.

As a parent you should be considering alternatives such as driving surely.

Have you ever been to London?

Plus she wasn't complaining about it being busy, just asking was this guy being a numpty. Yes he was. Next.

I wouldn’t stand up on a train for a kid but if they were in a seat I certainly wouldn’t expect them to get up! I’ve had mobility problems in the past and have worn a ‘please offer me a seat’ badge - that’s what they’re for. If this man and his imaginary friend didn’t have one then tough shit, That’s his responsibility, not yours. I’m more annoyed at people like the woman I encountered today who thought her shopping deserved a seat more than me (she did move it all when asked, albeit reluctantly). It’s dog eat dog sometimes so just do what suits you and ignore everyone else, except perhaps if they have a badge. And even then there would be plenty of people who could stand up ahead of your toddler.

I'm torn on this one. The man was obviously very rude, but it's also weird to assume people aren't disabled (both the man and the other seated adults) just because it's not visible.

It seems safer to assume your DD wasn't disabled than one of the adults because a physically disabled child would be strapped in somewhere/under close supervision rather than floating free on the tube. Whereas plenty of adults have hidden disabilities they can be trusted to manage alone.

Edit: I'm not saying that I would actually direct my request to you and your child though. I'm disabled but don't look it and tend to loudly but jovially say "are there any disabled seats available?" to the general area until someone lets up 😅

100%.

Ah well,whatever is easiest for you eh? YABU, and refuse to accept it. Child should be in your knee or in buggy. You were in the wrong.