AIBU to think a toddler should be allowed to sit while healthy adults stand?

[Thegoldenoriole]

Tldr: should toddlers stand while healthy adults sit on trains?

On the tube today, I boarded holding our 2yo DD by the hand, DH had pushchair and baby in the sling. It’s busy (South Kensington museums on a Sunday afternoon) so we didn’t get a seat. No drama, I manoeuvred DD down the carriage towards a pole and tell her to hold on to that and my hand and we travel one stop reasonably well wedged in. DH is half way down the carriage with a lot of people between us.

At the next stop, the seat in front of us opened up so I helped DD to climb up. NB: it was one of the fold up seats designated for a wheelchair user if someone needs it. However, no wheelchair present and the other two fold up seats had healthy young adults sitting in them.
DD had just got settled when a man says, very loudly, “would you like that seat?” looking behind him but pointing at my 2yo. I say hang on, she’s sitting there, he says something like “she can stand up, it’s for disabled people” I said “well she can stand but she might fall over” and he got huffy and said his leg hurt. Totally coincidentally, I’ve currently got a mildly sprained knee so just blurted out “well I’ve got a sore leg too!” and he said “well why don’t you sit down then?” so I did and put DD on my lap and he stormed down the carriage saying he was just trying to offer a seat to a lady.
I would absolutely have moved DD if a wheelchair user had boarded, requiring the full length of the fold up seated area. But AIBU to think that a healthy adult should be asked to move from a seat before a young child?
Just to preempt the question “why not keep DD in the push chair?” we had taken her out to help us get down the steps and walked straight onto the train. I have no real problem with her standing, it was more that it felt very much as though he was deliberately picking on the toddler sitting down, especially given he did not ask either of the other adults on fold up seats to move. But he was so self-righteous I’ve been left wondering whether this is some etiquette I’ve never absorbed, despite living in London for 10 years before having DD!

Just because someone looks healthy and isnt in a wheelchair doesnt mean they are not disabled.

So i'd say you were being unreasonable to assume they were taking up a disabled seat for no reason. I mean they may well have been, but you dont know that!

I do think that people are generally dicks though, and someone in other seats should have offered their seat for you and DD from a safety perspective.

We in GenX get the worst of both worlds - we always had to give up our seats to adults when we were children and now we have to give up our seats to children.

It goes without saying that a person with a young child should be offered a seat, London is a ghastly place, I don’t think this would have happened in most other areas of the country. Definitely not outside the big cities, people don’t tend to behave like that. I remember holding my tiny baby and being the only person standing on a bus in London, the place is totally uncivilised, sort of place people would literally step over you if you collapsed on the street

This.

Is the pain suffered by a 2 year old being flung halfway down the carriage when they lose their footing any less to that of an elderly person? Is watching a 2 year old get hurt ok?

Where is the 2yo's parent? Why isn't the parent holding on to the child so it can't fall over?

Between the 2yo and the elderly person, which is more likely to break a hip in a fall?

The one time I did see a small child - older than 2 - flung onto the floor of a bus was when the parent had left it on a seat and gone to sit somewhere else, Bus went round a corner, child wasn't holding on and fell off the seat. Child would have been safer standing and holding on to parent than on a seat.

I was focussed on keeping DD safe. The easiest, safest option was the seat directly in front of us. Getting back to the buggy would have required us wobbling back down the carriage. Of course it would have been possible, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable behaviour to have gone for the seat.

Plus, this man didn’t know DH was down the carriage with the pushchair as we weren’t obviously together, so it didn’t feature anywhere in his reasoning. So far as he knew, he was just ordering the toddler to stand with nowhere to go.

Lived in London for 10 years - always gave up my seat for a child - the jerks of the train could be scarey or dangerous for them - kids need the seat

Generally people can be quite harsh with two year olds. They think they are older than they are, when literally months back they were just babies. Toddlers are unsteady and dangerous at the best of times, expecting them to stand on any busy transport is both dangerous and ridiculous.

When you got on the train you should’ve put your daughter back into the pushchair.

I do agree that you sit and have her on your knee. Less space taken up for everyone.

I sort of see his point although he was a dick in how he did it.

I wasn’t making any assumptions about the seated people. The man assumed the toddler was more able to stand than them and tried to order DD off the seat, without interacting with anyone. I absolutely agree you can’t see all health conditions making standing difficult, but that’s equally true for all ages.

Oh, give over

Our buses in the 80s and 90s had large notices saying 'no child should sit while adults stand'. Which given they were paying for it, was fair enough. And now we have to stand for toddlers whose parents can't be bothered to put them in their chariot on wheels that I bet they hadn't even folded.

I would not laud the 80s and 90s as exemplars for child safety.

Agree, although where I live people are not harsh with 2 year olds but people were dreadful when I lived in London, knocked into with a baby in carrier and not even an apology. Why on earth is London behaviour accepted, there are decent people in London but it’s an absolute cesspit also, don’t think you realise quite how awful it is unless you’ve lived outside a big city

This

You care toouch about what other people think. Fuck the old git, he was trying it on because you're a female. He would not say it to your husband

I know it’s slightly different but I was asked told by a woman once to give my seat up for her small child. The train had no seats free. I was shattered but felt very pressured into doing it.

Then the little sod kept getting off the seat and running down the aisle.

Never again.

Well a lot of us made it through without a boundless sense of entitlement, so it wasn't all bad.

I don’t get why you would do this: “We had gone a fair way down to find a secure spot to stand when we first got on.” rather than put her in the pushchair?! I get why she wasn’t in it when you got on, but still doesn’t explain not then using it to seat her on a busy train.

for context I have travelled by tube most days for about 35 years. i would have no problem a toddler sitting down. And those who do probably wouldn’t be as vocal. You likely encountered a weirdo.

But I still think having a pushchair and not just putting her in it as soon as you get on the bus train and then compounding it by walking down the train - is just bizarre.

No but they were good days for adults to be respected

I wouldn’t want to see a toddler standing on public transport but would expect them to be either in a pushchair on a parent’s lap as very young children in seats aren’t protected if there is sudden braking and they invariably put their feet on the seats.I have invisible disabilities and cannot stand but it is very difficult to ask someone to get their child to give up their seat and I wouldn’t do it so I think the man was being unreasonable.

Toddlers in their own seat do not go down well on a busy tube train. They need to be on your lap! You are taking up standing space by letting them sit on their own. Put them on your lap and you will have freed up standing space for all the other standing adults and older children. That’s why you pissed people off. Cramped tube trains are not fun, your toddler didn’t need their own seat while you stood, she needed to sit on your lap. Your toddler sitting was not the problem. You were, by standing, when you could have taken up less space by sitting with them on your lap.

This viewpoint is coming from me on a horrendously busy tube train. If it’s only a bit busy then I’d probably care less and be more ‘whatever’ about it.

Well we don’t have those notices on the buses/tube/train anymore. We realise that young children are vulnerable on transport.

Yes I noticed that at the time 😅 tbh he was self evidently a dickhead, I posted because he seemed sooo sure he was in the right about demanding the toddler move, when it simply would never occur to me to ask a young child over an adult.