AIBU to think a toddler should be allowed to sit while healthy adults stand?

[Thegoldenoriole]

Tldr: should toddlers stand while healthy adults sit on trains?

On the tube today, I boarded holding our 2yo DD by the hand, DH had pushchair and baby in the sling. It’s busy (South Kensington museums on a Sunday afternoon) so we didn’t get a seat. No drama, I manoeuvred DD down the carriage towards a pole and tell her to hold on to that and my hand and we travel one stop reasonably well wedged in. DH is half way down the carriage with a lot of people between us.

At the next stop, the seat in front of us opened up so I helped DD to climb up. NB: it was one of the fold up seats designated for a wheelchair user if someone needs it. However, no wheelchair present and the other two fold up seats had healthy young adults sitting in them.
DD had just got settled when a man says, very loudly, “would you like that seat?” looking behind him but pointing at my 2yo. I say hang on, she’s sitting there, he says something like “she can stand up, it’s for disabled people” I said “well she can stand but she might fall over” and he got huffy and said his leg hurt. Totally coincidentally, I’ve currently got a mildly sprained knee so just blurted out “well I’ve got a sore leg too!” and he said “well why don’t you sit down then?” so I did and put DD on my lap and he stormed down the carriage saying he was just trying to offer a seat to a lady.
I would absolutely have moved DD if a wheelchair user had boarded, requiring the full length of the fold up seated area. But AIBU to think that a healthy adult should be asked to move from a seat before a young child?
Just to preempt the question “why not keep DD in the push chair?” we had taken her out to help us get down the steps and walked straight onto the train. I have no real problem with her standing, it was more that it felt very much as though he was deliberately picking on the toddler sitting down, especially given he did not ask either of the other adults on fold up seats to move. But he was so self-righteous I’ve been left wondering whether this is some etiquette I’ve never absorbed, despite living in London for 10 years before having DD!

You are just making excuses for your bad behaviour now.

I did wonder about that but he made no reference to it at any point and he definitely didn’t see it. Tbh if he had said, even rudely, “your child should be in the buggy so other people can sit, move it!” I’d have been annoyed at the tone but got out of the way. Equally if he had simply asked me politely, rather than offering 2yo’s seat out as though it were empty.

Can you answer the question?

How do you know he didn't know about the buggy? He could have watched you get on as family. He could have got on at your stop and seen you on the platform. There's no evidence that he didn't know you had a buggy . The hardest thing about having a disability on public transport is people like you, he's probably sick to death of your attitude that he just saw red this time.

Why, you have avoided questions from other posters.

yes of course children should sit and adults should stand. I don’t know what the world is coming to. And the man cannot direct you to move. Sexism.

This is correct.

yes of course children should sit and adults should stand

Children of any age? so adults should give up their seat for an able bodied 10 year old?

When on busses/whatever with a toddler/smaller child, I would put them on the seat and I would loom over them. Just because having them on my lap would likely mean that I wouldn't be able to also hold bags/hold on (some bus drivers treat it like a rally!), whereas with them on the seat, we can talk, and i can hold onto the pole in front.

As an adult I'm much sturdier on my feet than a child, and I've seen far too many passengers with rucksacks/bags/suitcases turn round and take out a little one behind them.

Once they're 9/10ish - ie tall enough to make their presence felt, that's when the 'give up your seat to an adult' kicks in for me.

I don’t think I have avoided questions? I’ve summarised the questions and answered them in blocks in previous posts. I’m not copying and pasting the same response to “why wasn’t the child in the pushchair?” to every person who can’t be bothered to read the OP or thread.

So, would you have asked the row in general if anyone could give up their seat, or would you have specifically targeted the toddler? If so, why?

So, would you have asked the row in general if anyone could give up their seat, or would you have specifically targeted the toddler? If so, why?

We don't know why he did that. Could be that he thought it could go in its buggy. Could be that he thought that toddler travels free. Could be that he thought mum could carry it. Maybe he doesn't like kids. Was yours moving around? maybe he thought it was getting on and off the seat.

You had a pushchair, why wasn't the child in it? It would have been far safer strapped in and the pushchair held onto by the adult. A child on a flip up seat is dangerous, if the train jolted they could fall from the seat as they have no ability to hold on. If you really needed the seat it would have been far safer for the child if you say down and held the child on your knee. After you got down the stairs at the station the sensible thing should have been putting the child back in the pushchair, I'm pretty sure you could manage that

He wasn’t on the platform with us. He got on at the following stop from the door on the other side of us to DH, who was a way down the carriage, not obviously with us or even easily visible. He may have assumed we had a buggy. He did not know it. He didn’t reference it either way.

Once again, he was originally offering the seat to someone else (who I didn’t even see) as though no one were sitting in it. It was only when I questioned this that he mentioned his own leg, which didn’t seem to be causing him any problems when he stormed off.

I fully believe you’ve had some crappy experiences on the tube. Would you have asked the row in general for a seat, or the toddler specifically? Either way, you would have been far more reasonable than this man.

The buggy is a red herring.

I never used a buggy for my kids. The issue is that this dude decided he was able to give someone else's seat up for them, and picked on a 2 year old with their mum, not either of the adults, or even just addressing the whole row, and it's not even clear that the person he was offering the seat to wanted it.

Why are brits so weird about children. They exist, they need to be cared for and catered to, and sitting one down on the tube is the sensible thing to do to keep them save from standing on wobbly legs, and from other people who don't notice a little one down at knee level.

Op YANBU

older generation will expect you to sit with child on lap but that was never my preference either and I think that norm has changed more recently. I preferred child sitting if possible for safety reasons ie they don’t fall and injure themselves or knock into anyone else. I usually stand as a preference.

ideal response (when not feeling confused / confronted) would be to reply ‘ah is there someone who needs a seat, is anyone able to offer’ ie open up to surrounding seat users and brush over the toddler being selected as one to give up seat

DH, who was a way down the carriage, not obviously with us or even easily visible.

Why was your DH down the carriage with the buggy?

I never used a buggy for my kids

Are you for real?

I’ve discussed this in the thread.

If you’re not prepared to answer my question or read through the OP or previous responses for clarification, I’m not going to reply to you anymore. Have a nice day 🌸

older generation will expect you to sit with child on lap but that was never my preference either and I think that norm has changed more recently

Who has the norm changed for? maybe that's the issue, clearly not everyone.

Aww thank you - I think that may be the first genuinely useful response on the whole thread! 😂 I’ll keep that in mind for next time x

You didn't want to walk/ wobble back to the buggy. Sorry but that's a poor excuse. Perhaps you shouldn't have posted on aibu, I have every right to give my opinion

In fact the poll says it's not changed that much!

It's perfectly possible to agree that the toddler was best seated for the journey but still think there was a more considerate way of achieving it. The OP, DH, pushchair and toddler were taking up more space than they needed to.

Is this to me? Yes, I never used a buggy for my kids. I had them in a baby carrier, then they walked. They were both early walkers, and if they got tired when they were bigger I put them on my shoulders, or by about 18 months DS2 did the school run on a scooter. I think I was just lucky that they were able to do that, and weren't runners (well, DS1 was, but only ahead, not across roads and we used reins)

My sister once tried to put DS1 in a buggy and he was utterly baffled at what was going on and why he couldn't be on his feet.

Let the kid take a seat, she's only two! kids don't have the endurance of an adult and I remember being dragged around the city centre with my mum for hours when I was little. A seat would have been greatly appreciated.

@IBlinkedAndBecameMiddleAged they are really not "disabled seats". Tfl designates them for anyone that requires a seat and points out that you may need to ask if your need is not clear. You can check the policy on their website. OP's 2 year old absolutely falls under this.

And if you read the OP back again, she never challenged him about requiring the seat for his leg or whatever, she pointed out that her daughter was sat in the seat he was offering about to anyone. He then started making multiple objections, one of which about disabled seats is factually incorrect. Op has said multiple times, if he'd asked could he take a seat because of whatever she'd have moved her daughter.

The kid had a seat, the buggy. And the kid wasn't being dragged around for hours they had a buggy.