AIBU to think a toddler should be allowed to sit while healthy adults stand?

[Thegoldenoriole]

Tldr: should toddlers stand while healthy adults sit on trains?

On the tube today, I boarded holding our 2yo DD by the hand, DH had pushchair and baby in the sling. It’s busy (South Kensington museums on a Sunday afternoon) so we didn’t get a seat. No drama, I manoeuvred DD down the carriage towards a pole and tell her to hold on to that and my hand and we travel one stop reasonably well wedged in. DH is half way down the carriage with a lot of people between us.

At the next stop, the seat in front of us opened up so I helped DD to climb up. NB: it was one of the fold up seats designated for a wheelchair user if someone needs it. However, no wheelchair present and the other two fold up seats had healthy young adults sitting in them.
DD had just got settled when a man says, very loudly, “would you like that seat?” looking behind him but pointing at my 2yo. I say hang on, she’s sitting there, he says something like “she can stand up, it’s for disabled people” I said “well she can stand but she might fall over” and he got huffy and said his leg hurt. Totally coincidentally, I’ve currently got a mildly sprained knee so just blurted out “well I’ve got a sore leg too!” and he said “well why don’t you sit down then?” so I did and put DD on my lap and he stormed down the carriage saying he was just trying to offer a seat to a lady.
I would absolutely have moved DD if a wheelchair user had boarded, requiring the full length of the fold up seated area. But AIBU to think that a healthy adult should be asked to move from a seat before a young child?
Just to preempt the question “why not keep DD in the push chair?” we had taken her out to help us get down the steps and walked straight onto the train. I have no real problem with her standing, it was more that it felt very much as though he was deliberately picking on the toddler sitting down, especially given he did not ask either of the other adults on fold up seats to move. But he was so self-righteous I’ve been left wondering whether this is some etiquette I’ve never absorbed, despite living in London for 10 years before having DD!

I guess my first question (apologies if I’ve missed the answer to this already!) would be whether those two adults were also sat in disabled seats? If not and the toddler was the only one sat in one then the existence of the other adults would be irrelevant to me.

If all three were in disabled seats….
If I saw a healthy looking toddler and two healthy looking adults. In all honesty, I would say that the fact that the toddler was sitting by herself instead of on a lap would influence my decision. If she didn’t need support or help, or even need a pushchair (we’re assuming the man didn’t know she had a pushchair) for going round London, then I would probably think it would be ok to ask. I would have no problem with her needing the seat if disabled, but on the balance of probabilities I would say there might be more chance of hidden disabilities in the adults.

Now, if the child had been held on a lap, my thought process would have differed. I would have approached all 3 equally - either you or your DD may have been disabled requiring that seat.

Not sure if helpful, but that’s what I probably would have thought

I half-foresaw people getting distracted by the buggy “off-stage” but I should have left it out entirely! 😅

I half-foresaw people getting distracted by the buggy “off-stage” but I should have left it out entirely! 😅

People would have worked out that with a 2 year old you would have a buggy.

All three were priority seats - it was one of those wheelchair areas with fold up seats.

Thanks for answering the actual question with thought. I appreciate this perspective 💐

Just ignore him, he’s being a twat. It’s very easy to offer someone else’s seat out. Nobody I know would begrudge a small child a seat.

We are not distracted by the buggy, the buggy is the blatingly obvious answer. And look 70% agree.

And again a fold up seat is not safe for a light 2 yeR old to sit on by themselves. Do you not care about your daughter's welfare?

It’s obvious you won’t accept any hint that you were wrong so why did you post?

I would expect a healthy adult is more physically able than a 2YO, so yes I would give the seat to a toddler over an adult and do give up my seat for toddlers on trains.

Yes when I was a child you were expected to give up seats as some kind of one way respect thing. Most people I know broke atleast one bone during their childhood.

Thinking on it more, if you had been sat with her on your lap, although the chances of someone being disabled would be equal to me, I would have preferred to approach the other adults first in case, rather than having to make a child stand if one of the adults could.

So I think maybe in this case it wasn’t about it being a child on the seat but maybe a child by themselves? In a way it shouldn’t really make a difference, but I think it does influence thought processes.

Thinking about it, I wonder if this stems from a time when many DC didn't make it to adulthood so adults were more valuable than DC rather than more able.

I agree that it's better for a 2yo to be sitting in a busy train, but:

1. you had an unfolded pushchair available (yes i did read your poor excuse as to why you didn't put her back in. It's just poor planning on your part)
2. you were just trying to make a point as much as that man did. You were both ridiculous.

Read the thread. Most people haven’t answered my actual question. Fwiw, I have accepted toddler would have been best off in the pushchair before boarding.

Fair enough 😂

The thread has moved on from your actual question

We are not going to agree on this. My view is that parents of small children should manage their child so that the child does not occupy a seaton public transport by themselves. There are two ways of doing this: child on lap, child in buggy. You chose neither. Wherever I see a small child occupying a seat by themselves, I think, in passing: 'There's a child who is going to grow up entitled because the parent isn't doing their job properly.'

So, I don’t agree that a child being allowed to sit while their adult stands in front of them instead of sitting underneath them is going to create an entitled adult. But I do appreciate you expressing your view about the actual scenario, clearly and reasonably!

Alright captain grump, we know which side of the fence you sit on then.
OP already said partner was halfway down a busy carriage with the folded pushchair.

Great, so why wasn't the child in it?

Because the husband who had it was already halfway down a packed train?
can't you read?

Why did the husband go off down the train with the buggy? makes no sense.

Regardless of why he did it, that still means that it wasn't available for mum to unfold and put her child in.

No I have in fact read the full thread. Etiquette isn’t a static thing because different people/cultures/nationalities will behave differently.

The thread is divided enough for you to see that there are differing opinions.

Plenty of people think you were out of order - the circumstances couldn’t be foreseen necessarily but you were in the wrong. But you won’t accept that.

If he could walk down the train, so could she.
Anyway, she’s clearly stated that it was her that (wobbled) walked down the carriage, “several metres” away from her husband.
Strange choice to make.

Wrong thread 🤦🏼‍♀️