The Left have a become a snivelling self-righteous mob, busy bodying around, trying to shame others

[Northermcharn]

I read this quote and it encapsulates exactly how I feel

'I never thought I'd see the day when the Right became the cool ones giving the finger to the establishment, and the Left became the snivelling self-righteous ones going around shaming everybody'

AIBU to think this is what many people think these days? We didn't leave the left, the left left us.

*the quote is from John Lydon aka Johnny Rotten. He's deliberately provocative in lots of ways, but he meant this one. I fully expect some people to come on the thread to tell us all how he's a horror and said he likes Donald Trump. That would be them missing the point.. but.. Let Them..

Good. At least you are now starting to see some facts and make a link.

You have no idea what my voting intentions are. Because I haven’t told you. How do you know who I am keen to elect?

Facts like their government debt is 123% of their GDP? Their unemployment rate is pretty much the same as the UK and the growth in GDP in both countries was the same in the quarter before the Iran war?

The US has outperformed Europe on growth and tech investment, sure. But pretending that’s just “right-wing economics” is simplistic.

The US also runs huge deficits, massive government spending and enormous state subsidies for industry and tech. Conservatives suddenly stop calling it “socialism” when America does it.

And if the model is so perfect, why does the richest country on Earth still have worse healthcare outcomes, huge inequality and people going bankrupt from medical bills?

Ah. Personal insults. Always a winner.

John Lydon voted for Trump, how cool.

I don't understand why MN is so angry at Labour supporters. It doesn't matter who's in government, the issues are always the same and always there. The Conservatives were awful, Reform would be a complete disaster as Farage is a total narcissist, the Greens are complete misogynistic weirdos. Why do people think that if only x, y or z were running the country anything would be different? Some things might get marginally better but other things would just get worse - alternatively everything could just get much worse.

Everything we need in life has got more and more and more expensive and people/governments/countries can't keep up - and it's not just in the UK. It doesn't really matter who's in charge, that fact remains.

I don't vote generally because I literally can't find anyone worth voting for. If I do vote then it's just to try and keep someone out rather than get someone in. As they say, it doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always get in.

I think you are even struggling to google correctly.

And also just googling numbers doesn’t make an argument. You have to have an understanding of the substance too.

US debt is a problem, how? Who’s going to call it in? The dollar is the reserve currency of the world. And they are major food and energy producer. If you are self sufficient in those two areas, and you have the world’s reserve currency, you make the rules.

US unemployment rate is around 100bps lower than the UK.

And US is growing at around 4 times faster than the UK. Not that it’s even a comparison. When they are 8 times bigger than the UK and 25% of the entire global economy.

But this is getting tiresome. It would be so much more fun debating with someone who knows what they are talking about.

I’m not going to repeat to help you understand. You can read it.

Read what ? You're talking absolute drivel and everyone can see you.

Your lack of capacity to understand is not my problem. You can talk to yourself now.

The music industry is a cesspit so if he’s looked down on in that industry then he’s definitely doing something right!

Where's the insult?

Devolution has not been an unmitigated disaster. Wales has problems, yes - we have an older, sicker population, and many rural areas making service delivery more difficult. But some different spending choices have been made - increased spending on social care, for example, an area that has contributed to the bankruptcy or near bankruptcy of some English councils, and lower spending here arguably leads to greater demands on the NHS.

And at least we had some say over what happened in Wales despite having a Tory government Wales didn't vote for in Westminster.

If anybody is being ‘shamed’ it’s the far right.
While the far right is not a monolith, a significant portion of its ideology focuses on ethnic or racial nationalism, which can include white supremacy, antisemitism, and hostility toward immigrants and religious minorities..
Discriminating because of race/ ethnicity etc, instigating hatred and hate speech must be called out. It happens to be illegal.

This.

Factually, it’s been a disaster.

It’s been a great success only if you class measure disastrous performance of education and health in Wales and Scotland. Both are behind England.

So why did the majority of Welsh voters vote for parties which support devolution?

Because they are ideologically driven. And don’t mind being poorer and sicker. Why else?

And both Wales and Scotland are poorer overall than England. Poverty lowers both health and education outcomes.

Do you live in Wales?

God these 'the lefties made me do it' threads are getting tiresome now.

Just own it. You're in favour of whatever your political party stands for - cool cool. That is you and that's why you voted how you voted. Stop crying that the left calling you thick is what makes you make dumb choices

I think this is how the Empire ends - we are on self destruct. It's time for another empire to take over - it's happened through the ages - I'd like to say Reform will be the ruination of the country but that's not true - the people want this - they want the end - if they can't have success, no one can. Self destruct - if it wasn't Farage it would have been someone else. China and India are moving on up - they have been for a while it's not news.

This sums it up rather nicely.

Yep, that's radical nowadays.