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The Left have a become a snivelling self-righteous mob, busy bodying around, trying to shame others

584 replies

Northermcharn · 09/05/2026 18:17

I read this quote and it encapsulates exactly how I feel

'I never thought I'd see the day when the Right became the cool ones giving the finger to the establishment, and the Left became the snivelling self-righteous ones going around shaming everybody'

AIBU to think this is what many people think these days? We didn't leave the left, the left left us.

*the quote is from John Lydon aka Johnny Rotten. He's deliberately provocative in lots of ways, but he meant this one. I fully expect some people to come on the thread to tell us all how he's a horror and said he likes Donald Trump. That would be them missing the point.. but.. Let Them..

OP posts:
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Crikeyalmighty · 09/05/2026 21:17

Lilifer · 09/05/2026 20:33

The music industry is a cesspit so if he’s looked down on in that industry then he’s definitely doing something right!

There’s good and bad in it - same as many industry’s , yes and some right arses - I know plenty of the good guys within the industry and believe me , the guys not nice, same applies to Morrissey - nothing to do with their politics, everything to do with how they treat others

Crikeyalmighty · 09/05/2026 21:20

ByKindNavySwan · 09/05/2026 20:19

Facts like their government debt is 123% of their GDP? Their unemployment rate is pretty much the same as the UK and the growth in GDP in both countries was the same in the quarter before the Iran war?

and what good is it if their economy is roaring but benefits only affect a small percentage - vast swathes can’t afford fuel, groceries, pre school for kids etc .

Crikeyalmighty · 09/05/2026 21:22

@OneTealShaker which reminds me I’ve not seen the mumsnet poster with the US obsession (think she might be American originally) post for awhile -

HoppityBun · 09/05/2026 21:27

Well, it depends what you / John Lydon mean by “the left“ and “the right”. You might think it’s obvious but I don’t think it is, because few people now understand what socialism means, the Labour party is eager to distance itself from socialism and few people understand what the old-fashioned Conservative party stood for. Those demarcations seem to have blurred. What is becoming apparent is that people want change, the two party system is fragmented and the electorate will vote for whoever they think is going to bring some sort of change, even though that change isn’t defined by the people they are voting for, except in the most vague and populous terms. That means they will swing wildly across a political spectrum according to whom they think is going to provide this change.

So, who is it that you say is snivelling? Politicians? Journalists? Neighbours and friends? I’m left-wing and I’m not snivelling afaik. Obviously, I’m no litmus test but I’m intrigued by this description.

There’s also the fact that the Overton window has shifted so far to the right that what was regarded as being mainstream at the time John Lydon was in his prime is now wildly to the left of centre. I don’t regard him as any credible or informed political commentator, in any event.

I have no interest in what is either cool or uncool in politics, and I am deeply suspicious of anyone who thinks that this is any sort of important measure. Does it even referred to any political ideology? Does this just mean what is popular at the moment?

What I do think is dangerous is that in the uk, we are copying the United States habit of referring to “the left“ and “the right”, with a degree of rigidity and certainty that doesn’t reflect our current political landscape. What those terms mean in the United States is not what is usually meant by those terms here. We just have a different political history and it cannot be said that we now have a two party system of left/right.

People really haven’t had a serious debate about what sort of society we want, what our values are and what we’re prepared to do to achieve them. since the end of the Second World War. I notice in local online discussion groups and online, that taxation is often regarded as almost on a level with robbery by some people yet at the same time there’s an expectation the infrastructure will be maintained by the local authority and the government, accompanied by indignation when services aren’t provided, when when elderly people, the sick and so on aren’t looked after and school buildings are unusable. They’re still a belief that there should be a safety net for people who are out of work at the very same time as people out of work are being labelled as skivers. They’re just so many contradictions in what people think they want. Do we, for example, want a nationwide and comprehensive education system where parents are happy to send their children to the local school, or not? Or is it more important to maintain private schools and divide up children according to whose parents can pay and whose cannot? As an example.

Lastly, people are very uncertain about the future. The rich are getting very much richer while the rest of us are getting poorer, even whilst many who regard themselves as well off don’t understand that in real terms they are becoming poorer and their children will struggle and less they inherit a lot.

As Gary Stevenson has said, we don’t have a capitalist society now we have an inheritocracy i.e. wealth is retained in rich (£billions) families and passed down, wealth is not reliably created for the average person by hard work. We have a truly unequal society that is getting more and more unequal and, consequently, more and more unhealthy and unstable. . This ferments dangerous social unrest. Working hard at an average job will no longer feed, clothes and house a family as it would’ve done 50 or 60 years ago. Unless you can leave your child around £1 million, they’re not going to be able to house themselves with any degree of comfort or security. In these increasingly desperate circumstances, disparaging people of different views gets us nowhere..

We urgently need more views and more discussion. It really does not assist anyone to describe people whose opinions you don’t agree with as “snivelling“. I certainly don’t think that people are feeling shamed, though I also don’t know what they would be ashamed of and how.

Givemeachaitealatte · 09/05/2026 21:34

OneTealShaker · 09/05/2026 19:33

No one disagrees with healthcare, workers’ rights, state education. It’s disingenuous to make out that the right is against these things.

But there has to be a limit to the extent of these and rights need to be balanced with responsibilities.

NHS is a national health service, not an international one. The right is not racist for insisting that medical tourism should not be tolerated.

The right is not unreasonable to insisting that employment legislation that actually leads to higher unemployment is stupidity and self harm. Of course a baseline of rights is essential. What good is further legislation if it actually leads to a weaker economy and more people losing their jobs. You can’t eat workers rights or use them to keep you warm in the winter.

State education is a good thing, but why penalized private education. If anything, private education takes the burden off the state system. It is politics of envy and frankly small minded to try and penalize this stuff rather than driving the economy forward so everyone has more.

Why is the left all about small minded, bitterness? And hatred of people who no power all the free things they want.

How do employment rights lead to higher unemployment? And how do they make a weaker economy and people losing their jobs?

SlumChum · 09/05/2026 21:38

Oops wrong thread!

ByKindNavySwan · 09/05/2026 21:38

Crikeyalmighty · 09/05/2026 21:20

and what good is it if their economy is roaring but benefits only affect a small percentage - vast swathes can’t afford fuel, groceries, pre school for kids etc .

Definitely. We don't have people dying because they can't afford insulin. I also calculated I have more disposable income in the UK than I did when I worked in the US, despite having a lower salary in the UK.

SUperchange · 09/05/2026 21:38

I can remember when politics was cool. There was a good social life for young people. Young Conservatives had good dances and parties. Young Liberals also when I lived in Newport Mon and Cardiff. Who nicked the fun? Now the cool item is 'Never kissed a Tory' Tee. Misery has set in for the duration.

OneTealShaker · 09/05/2026 21:49

Givemeachaitealatte · 09/05/2026 21:34

How do employment rights lead to higher unemployment? And how do they make a weaker economy and people losing their jobs?

I don’t know. You’ll have to ask the person who said that employment rights lead to higher unemployment.

Bringemout · 09/05/2026 21:59

I vaguely remember seeing a tweet Zarah Sultana threw back at JK Rowling the other day. She basically went something along the lines of “why do you have a problem with a brown, socialist, muslim woman”. I thought it was really interesting, she didn’t say why she thought Rowling was wrong, she went straight to a list of identities to paint herself as a victim who has moral authority due to her victims status over Rowling.

In this world view JK Rowling should not challenge her because she’s oppressing someone who is already “oppressed” and that basically makes Rowling a Nazi.

See, I’m a brown woman and I think Sultana’s a bellend, I also don’t like being forced teamed with other brown people for causes that are antithetical to my own values yet this happens around discussions about brown and black people being right wing. People actually try to shame them with their own skin colour.

Any discussion around welfare degenerates into a “why don’t we just eat the poor” hysteria. Theres a lot of “you are doing this because you are just a terrible person”. I hear it most from the left tbh, it’s a lazy way of winning an argument just strawmanning people. Where that doesn’t work people try to use no debate or shut down speakers (saw so much of this happening to GC women). Theres a fragility at the heart of it, it communicates to those of us who don’t mind having someone disagree with us that they have no argument, was it Julie Burchill who coined the phrase “crybully”? Thats what a lot of left wing activism looks like now.

I think it’s an utter pity, ideas get better when they are challenged and tested, it makes the world function better. QT used to be so much better than it is now. Anyone who’s older than 40 can probably remember political debates on TV being authentic, useful and thoughtful, I miss those days.

Bringemout · 09/05/2026 22:01

OneTealShaker · 09/05/2026 21:49

I don’t know. You’ll have to ask the person who said that employment rights lead to higher unemployment.

I wasn’t that person but I assume they would make the case that it makes employment more expensive for the employer so they hire less or much more carefully.

Bringemout · 09/05/2026 22:14

I do think btw you are seeing that same victimhood narrative in mens rights activists, incely right wing types as well. I think in the Uk it’s very much more a problem on the left, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we suddenly see right wing people do it more.

HoppityBun · 09/05/2026 22:20

Bringemout · 09/05/2026 22:01

I wasn’t that person but I assume they would make the case that it makes employment more expensive for the employer so they hire less or much more carefully.

I’ve looked around and different papers seem to reflect the political stance of the writers. Though the civil service papers suggest the employees laws will benefit the economy.

There’s a Cambridge paper that suggests benefits, but I have no idea of the author’s political positions:

The report also uses the Labour Regulation Index to conduct econometric analysis of the relationship between labour law and the economy over the past 50 years in the UK. This indicates that the new Employment Rights Act is likely to have a small positive effect on employment, representing an increase of around 0.1% in the employment level.

In those areas where the Act breaks new ground for UK law, including zero hours contract laws, analysis indicates that the adoption of similar laws in other OECD countries in the recent past has led to productivity and employment improvements.

https://www.law.cam.ac.uk/press/news/2026/01/cambridge-researchers-coauthor-government-report-new-employment-rights-act

Cambridge researchers coauthor government report on new Employment Rights Act | Faculty of Law

Legal protection for UK workers will move closer to the OECD average, according to a new report coauthored by a team of Cambridge researchers, and published by the Department of Business and Trade. 'Assessing the legal and economic implications of the...

https://www.law.cam.ac.uk/press/news/2026/01/cambridge-researchers-coauthor-government-report-new-employment-rights-act

Plugg · 09/05/2026 22:45

SapphOhNo · 09/05/2026 19:41

I can’t see your face but I assume you typed that with a straight one.

Medical tourism is a rounding error compared to the damage done by austerity and understaffing. The NHS wasn’t broken by migrants, it was broken by political choices.

And we hear the same thing every single time workers get more rights minimum wage, sick pay, maternity leave, weekends. Apparently it’ll destroy the economy. Funny how it never does. Meanwhile parties like Reform openly talk about deregulation and rolling back employment protections, so let’s not pretend the modern right is passionately pro-worker.

As for private schools, nobody’s stopping people using them. But pretending they don’t massively boost access to elite jobs and connections is nonsense. That’s not “envy”, it’s just reality.

Private schooling and ‘connections’ is such UTTER nonsense. You clearly know absolutely nothing about either how private sector recruitment works or how private schools operate. I’m cringing for you. What a cliche!

Plugg · 09/05/2026 22:48

Bringemout · 09/05/2026 21:59

I vaguely remember seeing a tweet Zarah Sultana threw back at JK Rowling the other day. She basically went something along the lines of “why do you have a problem with a brown, socialist, muslim woman”. I thought it was really interesting, she didn’t say why she thought Rowling was wrong, she went straight to a list of identities to paint herself as a victim who has moral authority due to her victims status over Rowling.

In this world view JK Rowling should not challenge her because she’s oppressing someone who is already “oppressed” and that basically makes Rowling a Nazi.

See, I’m a brown woman and I think Sultana’s a bellend, I also don’t like being forced teamed with other brown people for causes that are antithetical to my own values yet this happens around discussions about brown and black people being right wing. People actually try to shame them with their own skin colour.

Any discussion around welfare degenerates into a “why don’t we just eat the poor” hysteria. Theres a lot of “you are doing this because you are just a terrible person”. I hear it most from the left tbh, it’s a lazy way of winning an argument just strawmanning people. Where that doesn’t work people try to use no debate or shut down speakers (saw so much of this happening to GC women). Theres a fragility at the heart of it, it communicates to those of us who don’t mind having someone disagree with us that they have no argument, was it Julie Burchill who coined the phrase “crybully”? Thats what a lot of left wing activism looks like now.

I think it’s an utter pity, ideas get better when they are challenged and tested, it makes the world function better. QT used to be so much better than it is now. Anyone who’s older than 40 can probably remember political debates on TV being authentic, useful and thoughtful, I miss those days.

Hard agree with all of this! Who on earth decided that blokes in dresses and cheap wigs who want to be able to get into women’s single sex spaces - sports / jobs / awards etc are ‘the most vulnerable and marginalised of society’.

echt · 09/05/2026 23:03

'I never thought I'd see the day when the Right became the cool ones giving the finger to the establishment, and the Left became the snivelling self-righteous ones going around shaming everybody'

AIBU to think this is what many people think these days? We didn't leave the left, the left left us.

It's what John Lydon thinks is all. Who gives a fuck? Also, if you haven't done anything shame worthy, you can't be shamed.

10namechangeslater · 09/05/2026 23:05

This thread is batshit

Givemeachaitealatte · 09/05/2026 23:05

OneTealShaker · 09/05/2026 21:49

I don’t know. You’ll have to ask the person who said that employment rights lead to higher unemployment.

You said that the 'right are not unreasonable for insisting employment legislation that leads to higher unemployment is stupidity and what good is further legislation that leads to weaker economy and loss of jobs' - I'm just wondering what that legislation is? I'm just asking about what you said.

CurlewKate · 09/05/2026 23:07

Plugg · 09/05/2026 22:45

Private schooling and ‘connections’ is such UTTER nonsense. You clearly know absolutely nothing about either how private sector recruitment works or how private schools operate. I’m cringing for you. What a cliche!

There is a reason cliches are cliches!

TheSmallAssassin · 09/05/2026 23:12

Someone please make this stop! Nobody is persuading anybody else to change sides, like this, it's just setting up division between people and making us all hate each other.

SapphOhNo · 09/05/2026 23:21

Plugg · 09/05/2026 22:45

Private schooling and ‘connections’ is such UTTER nonsense. You clearly know absolutely nothing about either how private sector recruitment works or how private schools operate. I’m cringing for you. What a cliche!

Bore off and pay your VAT on your luxury education.

If it didnt give benefit people wouldn't pay for it.

OneTealShaker · 09/05/2026 23:24

Givemeachaitealatte · 09/05/2026 23:05

You said that the 'right are not unreasonable for insisting employment legislation that leads to higher unemployment is stupidity and what good is further legislation that leads to weaker economy and loss of jobs' - I'm just wondering what that legislation is? I'm just asking about what you said.

What legislation? I’m not sure what you are asking. What I wrote is clear to understand.

Plugg · 09/05/2026 23:39

SapphOhNo · 09/05/2026 23:21

Bore off and pay your VAT on your luxury education.

If it didnt give benefit people wouldn't pay for it.

The benefit is a calm, disruption free classroom which is rare as hens teeth here in Scotland. I know all about it being one of the many parents who’s child - after years of taking a beating daily while teachers watched on, powerless - just refused to attend any more. And who could blame them? But England has vowed to cut ECHPs and just chuck everyone in the same class in the name of inclusion too, so you’ll also soon find terrified kids being used as a punchbag regularly, and endless screeching meltdowns disrupting any for of learning and educational standards plunging rapidly too.

So when this happens to you too, a tip for you. Private schools are an oasis of calm and happiness in comparison. My child has thrived. Despite being 100% against the whole concept of private schooling like you, when the chips were down and we had no other option private schooling was our last resort and it saved us. Better get saving for that VAT!

You almost wonder if England are cutting ECHPs to force more kids back into private schools to undo the financial cost of educating those that left private?

Givemeachaitealatte · 09/05/2026 23:46

OneTealShaker · 09/05/2026 23:24

What legislation? I’m not sure what you are asking. What I wrote is clear to understand.

I am asking what the employment legislation the right is referring to? You said it, I'm just clarifying what it is. Is this some hypothetical legislation because I don't think anyone left or right would want to implement policy that leads to unemployment?

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