Employer refusing flexibility after child’s surgery. What would you do?

[TornIn2WorkThenChild]

Hi all, I am posting here for traffic and name changed as details are outing.

I really need some straight-talking advice as I’m completely stuck and don’t know what to do for the best.

I work part-time (15 hours a week) in an early years setting. My teenage daughter has just had surgery on both knees and her recovery has been far more complicated than we were told. She currently has very limited mobility and needs help with basic things like getting up and getting to the toilet. At the moment, I’m the only person she will allow to help her.

Since September I’ve had a mix of dependent leave and sickness (including 2 weeks signed off after my own surgery). My employer has now refused any temporary flexibility and expects me to attend work as normal, come home on my lunch break to help my daughter, then go back again.

I just don’t see how that’s realistic or safe. I’m really worried about leaving her alone for long periods in her current condition, but equally I feel like I can’t refuse to go in without risking my job.

They’ve said my level of absence is the reason for refusing any adjustments.

I’ve asked for everything in writing and will be speaking to my union, but I’d really appreciate some honest opinions:

– Am I being unreasonable thinking this isn’t workable?
– Is what my employer is asking actually reasonable?
– Where do I stand legally with dependent leave in a situation like this?
– What would you do in my position?

Please be honest—I could really do with some outside perspective as I feel completely torn between my job and my daughter right now.

I broke & dislocated my knee when my husband was deployed, so I had sole care of myself & a 4yo, I just had to bum shuffle when needed, not hugely dignified, but solved a lot of problems, would your daughter be able to do that?

I'm really not trying to be horrible but I don't think you're actually trying to find a mutually agreeable compromise; it sounds like you've decided what you need and that's the only thing you'll accept.

If this has been going on since September then it’s no wonder your employer has had enough! You’ll just have to run back and forward in your lunch break.

That sounds incredibly painful. I get the impression however that there is an option for someone else (the dad?) to be there for anything else the daughter needs (or at least for some of the time) but the OP would need to nip home at lunchtime to help her to the loo.

What did the hospital physiotherapists say?

Hi @TornIn2WorkThenChild .

When I had a hip replacement recently my local occupational health department got in touch to see what equipment I would need afterwards.

I had a commode chair for the living room (the only is loo upstairs), for the loo itself they provided a raised seat with a surrounding structure to hang on to.
I also had walking sticks, a 'grabber', and long shoe horn.

There are other things available too, for example, walkers.

Call your local OH department and see what they can provide for your DD.

I used adult 'pull-up' type incontinence pants just in case - I didn't actually need to use them, but it just gave me a bit of security so I never panicked about getting to the loo/commode in time.

Good luck, OP, and best wishes to your DD.

They would have a good argument for refusing flexible working in an early years setting due to the ratio of staff to children required. It sounds like a really difficult situation for you, I'm usually on the side of the employee but I can see that it would be very difficult for your employer to provide flexibility in this situation, especially if it is a small independent. You either need to accept that there is a real risk you will lose your job or have your DD accept help from someone else. Does she really need more than you dropping home at lunch? My DD goes the full day without using the toilet, which I know isn't ideal but school toilets are locked outside of lunch time and it gets too busy at that time.

If the surgery is very recent she will be feeling awful. I was on morphine for the first three days and then paracetamol at full dose for several weeks.

I don’t think people really understand on here what having double knee surgery is like. You can’t sit - your legs have to be straight all the time unless you are doing the tiny movements allowed for physio. I physically couldn’t lower myself onto a sofa, much less get up again. A chair was impossible at first - it was four months before I could sit in a chair for more than 90minutes without experiencing unbearable pain.

So you are literally stuck in bed. I cried a lot, just pain and hopelessness and more pain. I woke up due to pain every night for months; sleeping more than a few hours at a time was not possible.

In bed you are stuck in one position really - you can’t lie on your side at first because of the leg braces and the pain. The braces rub on the wound dressing if you aren’t careful.

So yes her dad could care for the OP’s daughter but I totally understand why the kid needs her mum. She needs her mum, I think her mum should be there.

The OP has very specifically said husband* so im guessing, not the father of her child and in whoch case i wouldnt want him having to provide intimate care to a 13 year old.

I think the majority of the comments on this thread are missing how complex knee surgery is, let alone BOTH knees at once. This will be a 13 year old girl in full knee casts / braces who is unable to weight bare / stand without a physical aide and may not be able to reach herself to wipe / clean properly if surgery was last week.

Sorry, I assumed the Dad. And I wasn't suggesting he did the intimate care - I read it as that he would be there to care for her re company, food, pain management but her mum would come home after 3 hours to take her to the loo

Could you pay for carers to come in to support her. I get she doesn't want Dad but maybe a female carer would work.

Cannot believe the responses on this thread! Her 13yr old child has had DOUBLE knee surgery. Then someone tells her to "bum shuffle", christ almighty. I can understand her not wanting her dad to take her to the toilet at that age, puberty hitting, she might even have her period, it's completely understandable that she only wants her mum to help with toileting.

I think your work are being unreasonable, and it's a hill I'd die on.

So yeah, if they won't let you have any unpaid parental leave, I'd quit over it, and start looking for a new job once your daughter has recovered. But obviously speak with your Union first. Wishing her well.

@TornIn2WorkThenChild so if getting to the loo is the main issue she could wear a dress or a skirt down to her knees so that if she needs the loo, she can take her knickers off, call her dad and he can help her to the loo and she can just pull her skirt up or wriggle it up whilst he looks away so her privacy is protected. She can be parked somewhere near a loo ie lounge next to downstairs bathroom or your room if you have an en suite. He can step out whilst she does her business. She can dress with you before work. He can deal with meals etc. You need to think practically as opposed to expecting flexibility from your work that they aren’t necessarily obliged to give you.

I understand op. I had to give up my job as an LSA in worked 10 hours a week. My daughter, 14 at the time had to have spinal fusion surgery for scoliosis . The recovery they said would be a 2 months max, so the surgery was done in the summer holidays. The recovery was much tougher than they said and it took nearly 6 months for her to be able to lmove around .She required manual lifting and moving etc in the first month. Imo should never have been discharged like it. I wouldn't be able to leave my daughter either if I was you. Its not just about physical recovery its the mental toll and embarrassment of someone else helping her. I don't know what to suggest could you be signed off sick through stress at all? And use the time to look for something else?

@Woodfiresareamazing2 that is good! My hospital offered me NOTHING aside from a zimmer frame.

The physio who assessed me as “ok to go home” did check I would have an adult with me at all times

I imagine the work are not seeing that op is ok to leave her 3 hours in the morning or afternoon, but not 3 hours, go home to help with toilet/personal care and then return to work for 3 hours.

I feel like, in their eyes, she can either be left for 3 hours, broken by lunch break, then 3 hours then home time, or not at all.

Thats kind of how I see it. The flexible working request doesn't really make sense. She is either ok to be left for 3 hours, or shes not.

The problem is that OP has been asking for flexibility since September. Sounds like she’s worn out the goodwill.

I had double knee surgery recently and they did not discharge me until I was able to walk with crutches. They have you up and walking as soon as possible after the surgery.

@Whettlettuce yes I agree OP’s child needs a lot more care than just a regular poorly kid and I think you did the right thing

If I were OP I might offer to resign with immediate effect then get another job when dc is doing better.

I’m still reeling at how many people on MN think this kid should be left to her own devices for hours at a time.

My dh arranged to work from home for an entire month and I’m an adult! On the few days he had to go out to the office he made his mum be my emergency contact and I was instructed not to move anywhere except the loo!

Surely if she has only recently had the surgery she will be having physio? Usually they have people up and about straight away. Could the physio review her progress?

The OP hasn’t said anything to suggest she would be willing to take the time off unpaid.

In a nursery setting depending on ratios half days often don’t work because they still need to cover the other half of the day! It would mean being over ratio on the extra mornings she did and under ratio the afternoons she would normally in unless someone else was changed to half days

You need to do the decent thing and resign. You have had 8+ months of other staff filling in for you.
Is your child's consultant aware that after 8 months your child can't get out of bed or walk?

This is exactly it.

If OP is okay to do five mornings and leave her DD for three hours every day, why can't she do two days, and leave her for 2x 3 hours? It makes no sense.

But in which case the hospital would likely have talked to the family at length about the arduous recovery from the surgery and the family needed to have a plan in place?
OP needed to book in advance to have some unpaid dependants leave for this, giving her work plenty of notice so that they could get an agency worker in or similar.
For double knee surgery you don't get the date 2 days before, this would have been planned.
OP what was your plan in terms of how the family was going to manage your daughter's recovery??

Afraid she needs to stop calling the shots
She needs help moving around, not to actually wipe her bum, which others can do.

Gently, your employer isn't responsible for caring about your daughter's 'dignity' or toilet schedule. They're there to run a business and it sounds like they've already extended a lot of flexibility. Moving to just mornings/or afternoons for an EY setting I'm assuming would mean cover would need to be found for the other hours?