to think it’s inconsiderate to leave a lifetime of clutter for your kids to deal with when you die?

[wirey]

My parents are in their 70s, both in good health, fully capable, still active. This isn’t about illness, frailty or anything like that.

They have a 5-bedroom house absolutely rammed with stuff. I’m talking decades of things such as old paperwork, clothes, random items, things they haven’t used in years (some of it honestly feels like it’s been there 30–40 years untouched).

I’ve gently raised it a few times and offered to help them sort through it. Not in a pushy way, just suggesting we could do a bit at a time. Every time the response is basically “you can deal with it when we’re gone.”

I find that really unfair. It’s not even about the physical effort (although that will be huge), it’s the emotional side too. Having to go through a whole house of someone else’s lifetime possessions while grieving is a lot. Plus trying to work out what’s important, what isn’t, what can be thrown away without guilt.
I get that it’s their house and their stuff, and they can live how they want. I’m not trying to control that. But equally, it feels like they’re knowingly leaving a massive job for someone else when they don’t have to.

I’m not expecting minimalism or a spotless house, just a bit of consideration in not leaving everything untouched for decades and then handing it over as a problem later.

AIBU to think that’s selfish?

I have reduced my own possessions by 75% as not to leave a mess behind for DH and my DC.

YANBU
I had to deal with emptying my parents house when they had both passed, and I had sold their house. It was full of antiques and furniture which my dad had assumed was valuable. It wasn’t. In the end I had to hire a ‘house clearance’ company, basically a lady took a lot of the larger stuff for me.(to try to sell on at extortionate mark up ) I was paid for it but not worth as much as my parents thought.
i had to deal with this on my own (as an only child) albeit with my husband and good friends help. Still, it was utterly traumatising .
I still have loads of their stuff in our loft . Haven’t been able to deal with it since.

Yes, I do have direct experience of giving things away for free.

It's interesting that you didn't reply to the person who has used Freecycle and who doesn't think it would be a particularly comforting experience when just bereaved. Telling. It's just not a good idea to make generalisations like you did. Sure, people don't have to read or pay any attention to them, but then you didn't have to type them in the first place either.

@BrownBookshelf Who's used Freecycle? I may have missed it but I didn't see any post saying they'd used Freecycle when recently bereaved and it added to their grief. Apologies if I did. But again, even if so, it's just one person's experience and everyone is free to make their own decisions.

Generalisations? Examples please.

Some people may find my suggestions helpful. And, just to paraphrase you, it's really up to you to decide whether a post needs making.

I can remember having a brand new, suede recliner from DFS of my dad’s. It actually was still in the packaging he’d never even sat on the thing.
It was current as well had only just come out before he died.
I couldn’t get a penny for it.
Gave it to my British Heart Foundation in the end.
One guy had agreed to to buy it from another city. Kept messing me about so I told him to leave it.
He then messaged me as he’d driven to my home city to look at it. And as I’d told him to leave it he wanted £50 in petrol money.
I had 2 almost new expensive TVs my dad had bought as he liked the latest thing.
Again, couldn’t give them away nobody wanted them. Even someone in the family who couldn’t afford a TV says no as she wanted a brand new one not a cast-off. One had cost £700, I’d kept the box, hardly used.
The only interest I got was in his luxury (is this a thing!) jet washer! Gave it to a lovely neighbour.

Look up probate loans, executor loans and inheritance advances.

The post I refer to re Freecycle is from canyon.

This is the generalisation:

I think it would actually bring comfort. It would be a hard at the time whether you chuck or recycle someone's belongings but at least you can look back and be glad you pushed through if you recycled it.

People have vastly different circumstances and feelings, so it's just ridiculous to presume it would bring comfort. Not least on a thread where multiple people have discussed difficult and negative feelings about the expectation and process of belongings recycling.

As to your last sentence, you'll note that I haven't said whether any post needs making, as I think that's stupid and pointless. Rather, it's a poor point to say nobody needs to read or pay attention, because it so obviously covers the act of you writing the post.

Is this really a thing? If my parents give a percentage to charity, the charity will take everything? That would be amazing.

I can believe it, people have already furnished their own house or have more precise ideas of what they want.

Nope. Canyon2000 didn't say they'd used Freecycle. Just didn't think using Freecycle was a good idea at that time, which is a fair point, it's not going to be for everybody.

The example you give is not a generalisation. It's what I think. I am not presuming anything.

Yeah, I got that last bit a bit wrong, ended up not being clear. But you did say: "but then you didn't have to type them in the first place either", so essentially telling me that I shouldn't post.

Just curious as to whether you know anyone who's actually done this, at the point where their parent has been going downhill for a couple of years and finally ended up in care? Potentially while juggling the aforementioned full time job, kids, potentially another set of parents?

Yes, there will always theoretically be a way. But this stage is totally shit for the adult children and parents alike. A little bit of forethought on both sides could make it so much easier.

Bloody hell, the coldness of some of these replies. These people are still alive, not at death’s door and seem healthy. Maybe they want to keep their stuff? Maybe they don’t want to sort it out yet, given it reminds them of the inevitable.

As to the replies saying “tell them it’ll all go in a skip”. What a cruel thing to say to your parents.

But that involves people "having to do stuff"

Nope, when my mother goes (shes mid 80s) its all going in a skip. Then the property will be sold. I dont care what's in there, could be the Mona Lisa being chucked, I have NO interest at all.

Yes I know people that have done it, not that I think it is really relevant.

For all the problems that can be raised in these scenarios there are solutions.

Ultimately it boils down to an equation of hassle vs. costs. IOW, Parents/other : live the lifestyle I want you to in order for me to have less hassle/more money when you die.

If my children were hassling me to change my lifestyle in this way I'd probably give them a choice. Either I leave it to you and you take it on, or I'll leave it to the cats home and they can deal with it (and probably be very happy in the process and probably not hassle me to throw away stuff I cherish). Let me know in advance what you want me to do.

Fair enough. I mean what's $100million between friends?

To be fair, a lot of my father's things will be going in the skip but if there's something reasonably easy to pass on, then I shall be doing that. Maybe people will want it, maybe not. But I'd like to try. If others don't, then that's their choice.

The property won't be being sold immediately so I guess that makes a difference. Same with the poster with the bikes, fishing and camping gear I would presume.

It only boils down to money if you have a basically transactional view of life.

I asked about life experience because I don't recognise this very black and white view of parent child relationships.

In my experience, this stage has been a huge amount of dependency from parents in the last years of their lives, coupled with an insistence that everything will be fine and no changes will be necessary. Followed by a series of crises until it becomes clear that actually, change is now essential and things have to be put in place that would have been easier for us and them if they had been planned for.

If you've been through that a few times, you are much more likely to want to protect your own children from it than to pretend that their concerns for your situation are just about them wanting your money.

I think them being healthy actually makes their inconsideration towards their daughter worse.

They expect their daughter to just deal with it regardless of what her life and emotional state may be like when they go. Heck, she could be the one that goes before them or may not be in a place to do anything for various reasons out of her control.

They are not at death’s door and seem healthy you say so surely, they are healthy enough to make a plan for someone else to sort things, make proper arrangements that don’t leave their adult daughter with responsibilities she didn’t ask for as if her time doesn’t matter and isn’t of value.

Everyone has a transactional view of life.

If you take on something that is of little benefit to you but satisfies you emotionally that is transactional.

Peoples motivations for handling the estates of dead people are their own. They don't benefit the dead person, because they're dead. There are no pockets in a shroud and no houses full of crap in heaven (at least to my knowledge).

I don't have an issue with someone saying, I am going to clear up this issue because it makes me feel good even if it is a load of hassle. I can't judge how much emotional capital they gain from the process, or how much benefit it is to the individual doing it.

I do have an issue with someone complaining about having to do it when they don't actually have to - that's martyrdom. Because no one is forcing them. They are doing it for their own emotional benefit, or more normally, financial benefit.

Everyone will have a limit at some point where the emotional capital they gain from handling a dead persons estate will be eclipsed by the hassle and risk involved in doing it.

You appear to gain emotional capital out of handling a dead relatives estate. How much risk would handling that estate have to pose to your personal finances or for example mental health before it would outweigh the emotional capital you would gain from performing the process ?

I can’t comprehend the idea that if we are to offer to help our parents declutter and sort out paperwork, it is highly offensive to them, and we are insinuating they are about to die, and we are forcing them to think about their mortality.

Yet the same parents often think nothing of expecting their adult children to ferry them to hospital appointments, deal with their finances, clean up their incontinent accidents, cook them meals, and run their lives for them whilst giving ourselves a breakdown. But this does not offend them or make them consider that they are near the end of their lives?

I’d be more likely to think my children think I’m near death’s door if they had to ferry me everywhere and wipe my bum than if they offered to drop my old kettle at the tip.

I can’t comprehend the idea that if we are to offer to help our parents declutter and sort out paperwork, it is highly offensive to them, and we are insinuating they are about to die, and we are forcing them to think about their mortality

Did you miss the title of the thread? It's all about the OP avoiding any inconvenience to her when they die. The "offer" is to make her life easier, not theirs. She can of course avoid any inconvenience when they die if she wants.

Not wanting to clear a 5 bedroom house rammed full of shit and also mouse-infested is really not about the OP wanting to 'avoid any inconvenience'. What an awful thing to do to your adult child.

I'm really talking about the later years rather than the post death stage. If a person needs to move - which ours have - it's much easier for them and everyone else if there has been a degree of preparation at the point where they are still young enough to cope.

Most people only face up to moving when they can't cope where they are any longer. By which point, they really can't cope with moving either.

So a degree of sorting and de-junking before you need to do it seems to me basic self responsibility.

And "emotional capital" at this stage is really just love, isn't it? Wanting what's best for them, being there for them even though it's hard and draining and they often aren't at all grateful? It would be a terrible world if it was all brutally transactional.

The adult child isn't obligated to do it.

So what happens when the parent needs to move house and is too frail to sort it all out?

Do you just say, sorry mum, you made your bed and you can lie in it? Because that really isn't how family works for most people.

But that's not the scenario posited by the OP. She started a thread about how unfair it was to leave adult children to sort it out on their death. She doesn't have to sort it out. Even if she inherits the house she doesn't personally have to sort it.

I work in probate, the amount of times I’ve gently said to people don’t put too much of yourself into clearing the house, you don’t need to spend your free time listing everything on eBay or offer every ornament to anyone who’ll take it, don’t feel bad about getting a skip or ‘doing the house up’, because it’s exhausting work and almost always we get to the end and they tell me they wish they’d just let me organise a clearance firm and paid out for it.

People always underestimate how much energy it takes even for a modest home, and they always overestimate what things are worth.