Should I retrospectively apologize to DIL?

[Yogarunningcoffee]

My Son & DIL had a baby last year. We live pretty close by and I regularly work in the village they live in. Quite often I’ll message to say I’m passing by and can I pop in but the answer is always no - I do see DGC regularly but it’s always planned in advance on dates that DIL has suggested and never spontaneous.

I’m also never invited upstairs to help with nappy changes / and I’ve only been asked to help with bath time a few times and again it’s always been pre organised.

Anyway I mentioned it to DS, as it feels much more planned & regimented than with my DD where I drop in all the time and really get stuck in to helping out.

DS reminded me that years ago when they had first moved into their house and were showing me round I’d run my finger along a chest of drawers and jokingly told him off for not doing a good job cleaning as it was dusty.

I vaguely remember saying this (totally as a joke!) and DIL not looking very happy about it but nothing got said so I forgot all about it.

However DS told me that DIL was absolutely livid about it as she is the one that does the cleaning and since then she will deep clean the house before I arrive as she was so embarrassed about it which is why she always says no to me just popping in. He also said I’ve mentioned in conversation a few times about how immaculate DD’s house is even with a baby which DIL has taken as a dig.

I feel totally mortified that a little joke has been taken so seriously and very upset that it’s meant DIL is keeping me a little at arms legnth from my grandchild.

Do you think I should apologise to her for the comment all those years ago? Or is there a better way to move past it. I really do feel awful that she’s spending hours cleaning every time I come round especially with a little one.

Oh dear. You're the author of your own misfortune here. How funny. Why are you even mentioning how clean DD's house is? To dig at them I'll bet. All those snide remarks biting you on the backside now, so you'll just have to live it and learn a life lesson. If you ever feel the need to comment on their parenting...don't!

100% apologise, my mil wasnt my biggest fan when me and exh first got together and she had a bit of a dig about my son not having a vest on which stung for a fair few years but over time our relationship got better, in fact eventually I think my relationship with her was better than with ex hubby. However, I do think that a mum's relationship with her daughter and daughters children is nearly always going to be slightly different to that with her dil and son's children, there is not a lot you can do about that other than work super hard at your relationship with DiL.

It’s a bit too late to apologize now I think, and I’m sure there were more things you’ve said over the years that your son just didn’t raise. Anw it’s unreasonable to expect to be asked to “help” with nappy changes or bath time. I don’t think much help is required for there and you obviously don’t make your dil feel comfortable. If I were you I’d try to make my trips more pleasant by bringing gifts for her and praising her skills as a mother.

I'm probably a similar age to you and I'm aghast at the dust comment just to begin with. My eldest (single no kids)lives in a shittip I don't know why, but I never comment. I'd go and clean if she asked me. My own MIL sounds a bit like you. When DD was born I had a c/s and DD was in scbu .DH told her she HAD to phone before coming to the hospital. Did she heck!?! We had the nursing staff warned. The funny thing was the day we finally were discharged we drove out to see her driving into the carpark.
I knew she'd turn round and arrive at ours and DH was primed to tell her to go away .

Even my mum who worked nearby never just dropped in, but she'd call and I'd always b happy for her to pop in. MIL was by arrangement only (eventually when she got the message) and tbh id go to her for her to see DD because then I was in control of timing.

MIL told my mum I was "very independent" she didn't mean it as a compliment.
I had to work very hard to keep a good relationship with her because of her entitlement. I had to argue she couldn't take DD into her place of work to show her off... Wtf. Thankfully DH was 💯 with me.

It really shouldn't be hard to let your adult kids parent their way. Yes smooth relationships goes both ways but not at Grandma's insistence around a new baby especially after the previous comments.YABU and TAH I'm afraid.

When we first moved into our new house (that both DH and I loved), my MIL didn't say anything to us at all, but said to someone else that the house needed a lot of work (even though it really didn't as it was in great shape). Then when my DS was born she commented that she didn't know who's he was as he didn't look like DH ("a joke, of course, isn't that funny"). Needless to say, I am polite with her, but I certainly do not enjoy her company and don't like having her around.

Good lord people are touchy. I don’t care what state my house is in if my in laws are coming over and my MIL does keep an immaculate house and has made comments about not being able to leave the washing up / kitchen messy etc. I think the fact you told your son to clean it speaks volumes (positively) about how you expect him to be pulling his weight (which he clearly isn’t if his wife has to spend two hours cleaning before you come round).

I would apologise but I also think she’s been overly touchy myself as you never criticised her. Personally I wouldn’t dream of commenting on how clean something is, but you said it to your son and I don’t think that comment alone is enough to get this het up about.

honestly I just think this is all a mountain out of a molehill. FWIW my nanna was obsessive about cleaning (like clean all the woodwork in the house before breakfast and sweep the lawn kind of obsessive) and our house was never clean enough no matter what my mom and dad did, so I know how hard it is to feel properly judged by in laws, but in the end you have to let some things go for the benefit of your kids and one off-hand comment to your son about dust is a ridiculous reason to take umbrage.

Two things.

1. Your DiL is massively overreacting. I cannot believe all the comments saying not to expect anything to change even if you apologise. Where is forgive and forget??
2. To be blunt: you seem a bit entitled / oblivious in your expectations around access to your grandchild. It's not all about you.

You said you see your grandchild regularly. That should be the end of your expectation, in the nicest way possible. As others said, the relationship you have with your daughter, who grew up with you all her life, has no bearing whatsoever on the relationship you have with a stranger who is living with your son. It's for her to decide what her life looks like. She doesn't have to let you / anyone in to her home at the drop of a hat - honestly, you constantly asking to visit at short notice will be the reason for the strained relationship, not the joke you made ages back. I can't believe she hasn't yet asked you to stop doing that. Please, stop asking to drop by on the day. No one enjoys this unless they have a super close bond.

Back off and accept that your DiL is her own person with her own preferences and needs. It isn't personal.

Also, you haven't said anything about liking her or wanting to get to know her, just she is a barrier to accessing your grandchild.

Have you offered to take your DiL out for a coffee? Have you tried to get to know her or bond with her? Have you spoken to her and said you'd like the pair of you to be closer? Have you invited her to spend time with you and your daughter? You might not be a good fit, friendship-wise but it's worth a try. Ask her questions, and follow-up questions and really make the effort. Prove it isn't all about your grandchild (i.e. just using her).

Also.. respectfully, it's bloody weird you're trying to get involved with changing nappies and bathing someone else's child.

You are a stranger to this woman so why on earth would she invite you to such a private, personal experience. Maybe her own mother, but not you. If your son is changing the nappy, does he invite you? I could understand him asking for your help or support but not your DiL.

So sorry if any of this sounds harsh. Not intended just thinking out loud.

Definitely apologise, late is better than never. It might have been meant as a joke but a DIL is rarely going to see it that way coming from her MIL when trying to show off their new house. Gushing praise is the only safe ground in these circumstances.

Also you do need to accept that for a lot of people the role of maternal grandmother is very different from paternal grandmother. It just is.
The freedoms you get with your daughter in her house, with her children are very likely to be much greater than in your son's home.
This isn't universal but more common than not, this isn't about genetic relationships it's about the bond between the new mother and her own mother. Also, perfectly normal to only go over by arrangement especially with a baby and not be involved in nappies, bath time etc. It might not be what you expected but it is not that unusual.

I am sure that you have kicked yoyrself for saying what you did. You were in the wrong, you can't change what was said.

I have 5 sons and no daughters. I feel like I am walking on egg shells most of the time for fear of saying the wrong thing and upsetting my daughters in law. I have learn't the hard way not to have an opinion and to keep my mouth shut. I only give advice when asked for....

Too much water has gone under the bridge, I believe that there would be little to be gained in saying sorry. Don't ever turn up without giving your DIL plenty of notice goes without saying and is the considerate thing to do.....!!!

Some joke!Making a comment about dust. Tactless in the extreme.
And commenting to them about about how clean your DD house is. Even more tactless. Are you a clean house fanatic?
Too late now to apologise. The damage is done. She wont believe it is a joke. Jokes are funny or witty. This was rude!
Accept the. Way things are. Compliment her. That is all you can do.

Why on earth do you want to change their nappy? Or even be a spectator at such a time!? That's a weird thing to want! Unfortunately I've change many a grandchild's nappy but would have loved it if I'd been told, "Thanks, but no thanks". There's no pleasure, or bonding, in THAT particular necessity! And just "Popping in"? No, no, no. That's my idea of hell! I need at least a day's notice, and THEN, I need a time. As for going upstairs, I'm probably old fashioned, but upstairs was always private, and not for visitors! My MIL never set foot upstairs in my home. I do go upstairs in my daughter's home, but only when she asks me to, or if I'm staying overnight. I wouldn't dream of going upstairs in a DIL's home without an invite, and if that invite never came, then I wouldn't think twice about it, I'd just accept it.

I'm not even going to explore your "little joke".... 🤦🏼‍♂️

@Yogarunningcoffee it’s only a joke if it’s funny, what you said isn’t funny at all.
My own mother-in-law started that nonsense and I put boundaries in place to try to manage her, as your daughter-in-law has done. Please know that it caused terrible issues within my marriage. It has therefore also likely made your son’s life very difficult and unhappy at what should be a joyous time.

Wow, what a catty misogynistic comment

Day 7 of kicking someone who has already been kicked. Day 7 of women queuing up to make someone else’s life a misery. Day 7 of mothers of sons being told you a second best and must spend your life never making a mistake.
She made a mistake she is asking how to improve the relationship, the OP is not Stalin. I’ve seen threads on abusive exes where there is less demonisation.

When you get those threads saying does Mumsnet encourage bullying, pile ons and harassment remember this one.
I’m not particularly defending the OP, I am criticising the zeal with which people continue to pile on.

1. Why are you even asking if you should apologise? Any decent human would know they need to. It wasn’t even a funny joke to make.
2. Don’t apologise with the expectation it will mend your relationship or get you what you want (see following points), apologise because you know you did something that warrants making an apology for.
3. Your DIL is not your daughter. You shouldn’t expect to have the same kind of relationship.
4. Your grandchild is also not your child.
5. Without wanting to be mean, you come across as sounding incredibly entitled. Everything about this posts reads that you want access to your grandchild for your own benefit. Maybe spend some time reflecting on your motivations and it might shed some light on why your relationship is the way it currently is. If you genuinely wanted to drop in to help, it wouldn’t matter if you were “invited upstairs to help with nappy changes and bathtime”. There’s plenty of other ways you can help your DIL and son without hovering over their shoulders. Clean, tidy up, cook, drop food over and leave immediately… there are so many ways to help truly altruistically that don’t involve hanging around or interrupting their day. But you sound like you want something for yourself out of your visits more than you actually want to help.
6. Improving this relationship won’t happen overnight and is going to require a lot of internal reflection and work on your part.

“Young husbands take time to get into running a house and a bit of dust killed no one. My son had dusty surfaces even 10 yrs on but he worked and had a child”

Fixed it for you 🙂

@OneLilacBeaker you re saying the OP is not a ‘decent person’ because she made one dodgy joke with her son? Bloody hell, she’s not stolen anything, hit anyone, not broken the law. With her son, she made a joke that didn’t land well. A bad joke? An insensitive joke? But a bloody joke and now she is not a decent person?
This thread is madness.

Yeah she is not your daughter, you can’t expect a loving relationship with your DiL, especially after you commit the worst of all heinous crimes - a dodgy joke. Hang your head, leave the country, banish yourself to furthest ring of hell for making a joke about cleaning. No one will ever love you again.
Madness.

@Thetreesaregreeninspring nope, she’s not a decent person because she knows she’s done something to upset someone and she hasn’t apologised even though she clearly knows she should. Doesn’t matter what the thing is (in this case it happens to be an un-funny joke that landed badly, but that’s honestly by the by).

It sounds like she wants the relationship to improve. It probably can. But it won’t be an overnight fix and is going to require work on herself on her part. Telling her that is constructive feedback, not piling on.

The other option is not giving her constructive suggestions for things she could actually do to improve her situation. But how does that help?

@OneLilacBeaker by your argument YOU are not a decent person. You didn’t give helpful advice you were damming and deliberately cruel. But you think you re decent because you didn’t mean to be cruel the way the OP didn’t mean to be cruel. The helpful ‘advice’ you gave comes after poster after poster being damming and downright unpleasant, the absolute definition of kicking someone one when they are down.
BUT you’re a decent person because you didn’t mean it like that, you were being helpful. It didn’t seem helpful to me, it seemed cruel and looks like bullying. You’re part of a mob kicking someone who made a mistake - that doesn’t seem ‘decent’ to me.

You see how it’s all in the eye of the beholder?

@Thetreesaregreeninspring nope, not the same at all. OP put it out there asking for feedback. She got feedback.

I wasn’t being unpleasant, I was providing the feedback she publicly asked for. That’s not a mob kicking someone. OP explicitly put herself on the internet asking for feedback.

Please point out exactly where I said I think I’m a decent person.

I don’t know about you but when I read a question and provide a response, it’s a direct response to the question asked. I certainly don’t have time to read 27 pages of posts.

Through another lens it could be seen that you’re bashing people for being unpleasant when they have only been responding as originally asked by OP.

You see how it’s all in the eye of the beholder?

THIS!

@Yogarunningcoffee you can pull this back. Be sincere with her.

@OneLilacBeaker “I certainly don’t have time to read 27 pages of posts” no decent person would wade into a thread, comment in a rude and demeaning way if they hadn’t paid attention. Effectively, I don’t know if it’s been a bullying thread and I don’t care. I am going to join in the kicking because I want to.
I actually think you are in all probability a throughly decent person. My point is that like many on this thread you have felt able to be very rude and unpleasant to someone who’s had 27 pages of kicking. You feel able to judge someone else and then justify it with an argument that amounts to “she asked for it” - she didn’t ask for abuse she’s had.
I am “bashing” and being deliberately hyperbolic to make the point that some comments have verged on the hysterical when laying into the OP.

@Thetreesaregreeninspring that’s exactly it. Nobody is laying into her, they’re just each individually answering her question.

You’re bullying me because I’m the most recent person here. Full disclosure, I did read most of the full thread after forming my response (so as not to bias my feedback). I stand by my points enough to have posted them. (And honestly, there are so many easy ways in which she could begin to repair this relationship if she was able to see things through the lens of other people. I’d love to suggest family therapy in this situation, but I doubt the son and DIL would be receptive until she’s tried to do a little bit of work to repair the relationship herself first).

I’m done here, each individual has taken time out of their own lives to provide their own personal response to OP. How that builds up a picture as a whole is a beast of its own, but perhaps that says enough in its own right. “Don’t ask questions you don’t want answers to” is a good principle of dealing with both the internet and life in general.

I’ll depart this conversation and leave you to the next person who provides their response to OP’s question.

Made your bed. Why would you even think to 'jokes' about dust?
Why would you mention your daughters spotless home to your DIL?
I have a mother in law who is makes comments like this. They aren't innocent and they aren't jokes.
My mother in law had been kept at arms length for 17 years because of her 'innocent' (passive aggressive and rude) comments.

Id keep you at arms length too.

One apology won't take back the years of her dreading your visits because she feels she has to deep clean just for you. Won't take back years of judgement shes felt from you.

Does your son in law mind you popping over all the time?

They are divorced but thanks anyway