To wonder why working class white boys do worse than any other ethnic group, and how we can change this?

[Carla786]

A lot of stuff I've read recently has argued the way school is set up disadvantages boys compared to girls. But this doesn't explain why white working class boys would perform worse than wc boys of other ethnicities.
Asian wc boys are more likely to have present fathers,,but black wc boys less likely than white boys (I think). So absent fathers I'm sure are part of the problem, but then maybe also black boys then have a protective factor that still boosts performance which white boys don't have? What could this be?

And how can white wc boys be helped? The question also remains why white wc girls are apparently less affected too : maybe I suppose tying in to school methods being more suited to the average girl?

https://www.spiked-online.com/2026/03/24/the-betrayal-of-white-working-class-boys/

This is such a simplistic and uncharitable reading of this discussion.

I don’t think anyone sensible would deny that in both cases there are very strong cultural factors influencing outcomes (so, yes, that includes the parents and the wider community).

Well, they may go to mosque on a Friday or church on a Sunday all dressed up, but are they actually religious day to day? Does their family pray everyday, read religious texts, fast, take part in ceremonies, is sex before marriage frowned upon, is leaving a spouse and children frowned upon etc? The answer is usually no, just like white working class boys.

Yes, I've also been reading a lot of Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie lately & her books like Americanah & Dream Count are about exactly these kinds of Nigerian immigrants (though mostly in US not UK)

I teach in a school in a pretty poor area with 50% FSM. Asian kids on the whole are the hardest working.

A huge majority of white kids have no aspiration and very little support from home. A lot of the white boys are misogynistic, racist and lack any respect for authority. A lot of parents are unemployed, lack an education and drink/take drugs. My year 11 class is a bottom set and they don't really want to go to college, a couple are involved in county lines and some have part time manual jobs that will become full time minimum wage jobs.
Poverty and lack of jobs in an old
industrial town have had a generational impact.

Yes. It's the same system in several ways which left the Rotherham & Rochdale girls so vulnerable. Giving people in these areas tools to create a better life needs to be a national priority. It's disgusting that politicians allowed things to get so bad.

PM radio4 programme was featuring Wales this week - it was so depressing -the list of companies which have moved abroad from one region and nothing coming to replace them. Over decades.

Putting money into education and sport facilities would make such a difference.

Yes, this must be done.

I think the fact that the disadvantage of being working class is massively underplayed will be a part of it. We know women/girls experience oppression and we know ethnic minority groups do so policies are in place to promote equality. What the government and society in general have no interest in is white boys/men because they are seen as the most privileged, which they are, IF they are not middle/upper class. Working class girls/ethnic minorities do worse than their middle class counterparts.

When white boys have parents who hated school and distrust authority figures and all their wider social contacts are the same then there is nothing to help them break that cycle unless they are very self motivated.

Yes, Radio 4 showed working class white girls are not far ahead of working class white boys.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002tzqm

https://www.google.com/search?q=wealth+distribution+between+agrican+and.caribbeam.immigtants+uk&oq=wealth+distribution+between+agrican+and.caribbeam.immigtants+uk&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTI3MjY3ajBqN6gCFLACAfEFeGvqgBgpe5_xBXhr6oAYKXuf&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#lfId=ChxjMe

Partly home issues, partly school ones. The one constant is lack of investment.

The vast majority of parents really love their kids. However, some of them simply don’t have the time or energy to insist (for eg) that kids do homework. Some see zero point in school work so don’t encourage working hard in school. Many parents work in low paying jobs so struggle to ensure kids come to school having eaten nutritious food and many kids lack extras (such as having a car to get to a football training session) and therefore don’t exercise.

Then there’s schools. In these areas they don’t have the money to attract decent teachers. Who the heck is going to choose to teach a class of 30 where there’s 2 with social workers cos their home life is really not okay, 4 with emotional / MH issues, 3 with significant behaviour issues and probably another 3 with undiagnosed SEN? With no additional pay for being in a tough school, but more abuse (cos the kids are dysregulated) and being hammered by ofsted?

When there’s a child who cannot cope in mainstream school and they need alternative provision the school get financially penalised. The grammar school I taught in paid for AP not even once in 5 years. Current (northern, disadvantaged, mostly white working class) has more than one kid in every year group in AP. And it’s not cos I magically became a shit teacher when I started work here. Keeping children who cannot cope with a classroom in a mainstream setting has a hugely negative effect on that child, their family and their classmates. It is wrong and unfair that there is insufficient access to suitable school for kids who can’t cope.

Why is this affecting girls more than boys? I think it is puberty. By the end of year 10 lots have girls are more mature and are taking school seriously. But (on average) for boys the change happens later. Biology is a bitch sometimes. Then there’s the usual social issues of boys being less compliant (cos “boys will be boys, innit”) and a significant lack of fathers (which I expect affects boys more than girls cos role models are very important).

Sorry, that was long! TLDR: some people are proper skint and the public sector needs more money.

I came across a video of Nicola Thorpe chatting with two young lads at a rally and thought - they really don't stand a chance. They were marching because they're bored and would otherwise be in their bedrooms doing nothing, because everyone gets free stuff except them... and they were fully supported by their parents and grandparents.
It was so sad to see, because they seem like affable enough young men; but completely without direction and purpose.

Does that explain why white WC boys underperform the black Caribbean boys though? 63% black Caribbean boys grow up in a lone parent household vs only 22% of white boys (admittedly I’m citing data from 2021). That would indicate to me dictate that BC WC boys should underperform. Would be interested to see the stats for the 2 groups in London alone, since WWC boys have access to the same resources as BCWC boys in London and large cities, where resources tend to be diverted.
I don’t see any governments throwing money at Blackpool. In fact I read a worrying article recently where more and more children are opting for home schooling in places like Blackpool, and homeschooling in this country is scandalously under regulated.

This.

Agree re Blackpool. Homeschooling needs to be more regulated and Blackpool has a lot of other issues that need addressing. Julie Bindel had a terrible article about girls afraid of SA there who identify as trans boys to feel safer.

https://juliebindel.substack.com/p/why-do-so-many-girls-in-blackpool-a6a

White WC boys had white WC fathers who seem to think the world owes them. The racism at my school is horrific and until this cycle gets broken in will continue. I hear the boys in my class moan because of "the illegals" taking their dad's jobs. The dad that's never worked a day in his life, like his dad before him. Women are to blame for their failings too. The way they speak about girls their own age is disgusting - the sexual expectations are scary

Probably because society tells them that they can use their white privilege to play victim.

That's very worrisome. Do you think internet & SM accelerate this misogyny?

I would be interested to hear your source for these assumptions, and I do hope that you know that Caribbeans are Christian by default.

Not only do those that attend church on Sunday go "all dressed up" but they will spend the entire day there in multi hour services, have bible sessions on weekdays, and give 10% of their income to the church. Within this section of the community, they very much frown on sex before marriage as well as separation and divorce.

There are of course those that don't attend church with different values.

Just as we are discussing underperformance of white English working class boys as opposed to "white English boys" because white English boys from higher socio-economic classes are flourishing, we cannot describe Afro-Caribbean British families as a monolith.

Within the Afro-Caribbean British community there are working class, middle class, religious, atheist, 1st generation, 3rd generation, city dwellers, suburban dwellers - as with any community.

Specificity is a requirement in conversations like these, if the goal is to better understand the phenomenon as opposed to therapeutic venting.

Is anyone going to mention Thatcher? Privatisation leading to lack of jobs. The elite old boys network deciding where the money should go. Lack of investment in cities. Horrific government's dishing out contracts to USA so lack of jobs and prospects. Everything is imported, no industry left, coalmines shut, other industries closed down resulting in lack of jobs, lack of family, community and social support, increase in mental health issues, the list goes on. It really isn't just about race and really isn't as simple as that!

I was thinking a little along those lines. Geography and lost industry, so once productive communities lose pride and the means to sustain working populations. And as you say - lack of social investment for those who are left behind. As another poster mentioned I wonder too if immigrant communities have been generally hit less by this, maybe more agile and resilient to change. But that’s a massive assumption.
I think it’s been the case across the 20th century that there’s been an uneasy mix of socialism and fascism alongside poverty and working class communities - think Mosely in the East End between the wars for example.
its certainly true that the most impoverished in society have always been blamed as well as pitied for their predicament.

Interesting thread.

I do think there's an aspect of not being quite disadvantaged enough - but if you're African, from Nigeria or wherever, where things are really tough, it's pure determination and desperation that drives you.

Working class white lads do not have that level of desperation. Yes. It's bad, there no opportunities, and the standard of education is perhaps poor, but it's far, far superior to what you get in other countries.

I say this in no way to benefit bash - it's more of a subconscious knowledge of a safety net.

It used to be the same in the UK 100 years ago - no state welfare. You had to make your own luck, money and fortune, mostly by hard work, if you were working class.

No, there's no money thrown at Blackpool. Or Burnley. Or Blackburn. Or Bradford. Or Bacup. Or Bolton.

All Northern working class towns.

I work in a hugely diverse high school.
At weekends and holidays, I have to remind our Ukrainian kids to have a rest, and not study too hard.
Many of our homegrown just don’t have the same work ethic or aspirations! They also find it much harder to take responsibility for anything. It’s carried on through the generations of their families.