To wonder why working class white boys do worse than any other ethnic group, and how we can change this?

[Carla786]

A lot of stuff I've read recently has argued the way school is set up disadvantages boys compared to girls. But this doesn't explain why white working class boys would perform worse than wc boys of other ethnicities.
Asian wc boys are more likely to have present fathers,,but black wc boys less likely than white boys (I think). So absent fathers I'm sure are part of the problem, but then maybe also black boys then have a protective factor that still boosts performance which white boys don't have? What could this be?

And how can white wc boys be helped? The question also remains why white wc girls are apparently less affected too : maybe I suppose tying in to school methods being more suited to the average girl?

https://www.spiked-online.com/2026/03/24/the-betrayal-of-white-working-class-boys/

Why do you think this is?

In the UK and in Australia (to a very slightly lesser extent) there is a multigenerational feeling that education and career goals don’t matter or there’s no point as the government will look after you. There is also an attitude of not getting ideas beyond your station - they will be quickly slapped down. If someone wants to work they will be shamed for acting better than others.

I went to a school in a northern town where most of the white kids left at 16 and some before. The white kids who stayed on in 6th form were mainly from European backgrounds.

There wasn't any interest in further education because that involved too much hard work. So they all went in to manual labour and minimal wage jobs and the poverty trap. Their families were similar and actively discouraged education and didn't make the connection between education and higher paid jobs.

I didn't have an option but to go to university, my parents made it very clear that's what was expected. It was a similar experience for many friends in my immigrant community. Mainly because regular jobs weren't open to us due to racism and discrimination. I couldn't get a Saturday job in retail during the 80s because my face didn't fit.

So all my efforts were spent on getting a degree, moving out & getting a professional job. More options were open to me this way, even though it was still hard. The w/c white kids could walk into jobs in garages/ factories/shops where their families worked. So they had access to another 'jobs for the boys' network that I didn't.

Kids from immigrant communities generally didn't have that option. We could get jobs in restaurants/takeaways while we were at uni/training but they were only temporary. The expectation was always to move out of those jobs and into professional jobs because working conditions were better.

So now you have a situation where the Indian restaurant trade in the UK is struggling to recruit UK born staff. This is because the 2nd/3rd generation kids don't want to do it. Their parents have generally moved away from that industry so immigrant staff fill the catering roles now. This is just one example of the impact of higher education in the Asian community.

My rambling answer hasn't completely answered your q as to why white wc boys aren't thriving. However, it provides a bit of background as to why the Asian community has instead.

This, so much of it is the parents. If you don't value education, why would your children? It's quite simply generations of families who don't value education and who don't respect teachers. This becomes a vicious cycle, kids don't care and don't try because their parents haven't encouraged them to value education and good teachers will avoid the schools and areas these children live in. Obviously, there are good teachers in these schools, but not as many as in areas where families actually value education.

There is so much of this amongst white men of certain backgrounds, it's terrifying. It's why we have Trump in the White House and why Farage is so popular. They think because they're white the world owes them something for nothing.

people that migrate to the U.K. don’t suddenly develop a strong culture of the importance of education. It’s already. instilled in the home countries.

I agree to a certain extent but there is also an ambition to improve your circumstances that is missing from white wc communities. This is what my community has, my parents valued education but they didn't go to university. It's because they didn't have a degree and had a business working long hours that they wanted better for me.

Most of my white working class friend's families discouraged education past 16. They saw it as a waste of time and beyond their reach; it wasn't what people from their communities did so why should they.

Does it actually hinder white working class boys though? I come from a wealthy area and my school was among the highest achieving state schools in the country. Many of my female friends had fantastic grades and their pick of universities and courses. And yet many of the white working class boys (to be fair almost everyone was white where I am so not many people from other ethnicities to compare with) who failed more or less everything or didn't sit anything much to begin with have ended up in what look to be higher earning careers in trades and manual work. They seem to have big houses in the private sector (no idea if they're rented or bought) and beautiful things from photos on Facebook. Beautiful wives (who I presume had a good choice in partners) and lots of lovely holidays. For the most part, many of my female friends only have this due to their high earning partners and some don't have it at all despite decades of study and long working days. I don't see many on benefits although that may be a function of living in a wealthy area with good job opportunities. Things may be different for those in old mining towns.

This in a nutshell

I’m not convinced that the way school is set up disadvantages boys. People often say this and the implication is that it is set up to favour girls, that boys are less suited to sitting still, being quiet and facing the teacher for long periods. However schools have more or less been set up like this since a time when it was only generally boys that were educated.

The sitting still at a desk for long periods also doesn’t suit a lot of girls so I think something else is going on. I’m from a working class background although both my parents were highly intelligent neither stayed on at school. My mum felt the only option she was given for further education was teachers training collage which she didn’t want and my Dad had no choice but to go out to work after his Dad passed away, so his mum was a single parent and he had six siblings. Education was valued but my mum always said as long as I did my best she’d be proud of me. She did sit with us every day while we did our homework she didn’t work again until I was 12 and she read to us. I got music lessons paid for by the local authority which I think really helped me a lot. I did go on to university and to get a degree and a masters.

Looking at what kids from my background have now its harder. Class sizes are bigger, there can be a lot of disruption also true in my day but it does seem worse. Both parents work and often homework isn’t supported or tolerated (my SIL refuses to make her kids do their home work) I get this as both parents are working and battles over homework are the last thing people need and most families need the duel income to survive.

High dopamine distractions are rife, its hard to resist them even as an adult and if nobody is heavily guiding you to build those habits for discipline then it’s too easy to be sucked in to those more immediate rewarding habits of screen time, video games and so on. Poor diets, lack of physical activity, lack of sleep also probably figure.

My niece and Nephew also use AI to do pretty much all their homework even the creative stuff and they are both really bright kids. This is so depressing as there is no way that works out well for them long term.

I attended Dd1’s graduation last year and many of the students were of South/East Asian origin and African ( mainly Nigerian ) origin.
These ethnic groups tend to value education and will invest in their children’s education even if it means taking on extra work to pay for extra curricular activities such as tutoring
In white working class families many still have the entrenched belief that education is not for them and some children are actively discouraged from pursuing higher education

There's also plenty of working-class Nigerians in the UK. I've lived in Nigeria and my impression was that education is valued there and schools are quite strict. My mum who has diasporan Nigerian kids in her class says the parents are generally really supportive of the school. My personal observation was that Nigerians are hard workers and that success is really culturally valued there. All surface-level stuff and I could be wrong but I wouldn't just put British Nigerian's achievements down to there being a lot of middle/upper class Nigerians in Britain (which there definitely are) I think there's other factors at play.

I think the definition of working class in this context is broad. It's not a phrase often used, but perhaps underclass may be better suited. I don't like the terminology as it has horrible connotations, but when people are referring to families who haven't worked for generations and don't value education, working class isn't an apt description. Many skilled trades people earn more money than middle class professionals. Also working class is such a broad descriptor, it covers swathes of people as does middle class.

@Empis It’s interesting isn’t it? We have had a lot of recent immigration from Nigeria recently in my area and we’ve had a lot of African churches established one is called “The Winners Chapel” and it seems to have a central belief of pushing yourself to success in life and a bit of online research tells me it has a prosperity doctrine. Perhaps there is a bigger culture of striving for better things? I also agree that those who immigrate are more likely to be of the mindset and physical ability to push themselves to do hard things.

The biggest influence on academic success is a childs home life, its also the only thing we can’t change. Personally I feel the default in the UK is to have minimal expectations, the whole culture of “I’m crap at maths” tends to be said with pride, rather than being mortified and getting to night school to improve skills. Its hardly a surprise that many children under perform when they arrive to reception in nappies, unable to use cutlery, a book etc perform poorly and limited job prospects as adults. If they’re already two years behind at four, unless parents change and provide intensive support at home that gap will continue to grow.

No one cares about them, there are so little schemes and opportunities set up for them as there is no virtue signalling and brownie points in doing so.

We have an anti-intellectual culture in the UK. Trying too hard is often sneered upon, and I think class tensions come into it, too (even as a kid I remember being called a ‘posh bof’ because I got a place at grammar school!)
We often see on here a deep mistrust of teachers, rules and the schooling system.
Being well educated just isn’t something that all people take pride in. It’s a badge of honour to kick against the system, often leading to voting reform etc.

@Simonjt I wonder though is so many people feeling crap at math is perhaps an indicator that we aren’t teaching it properly to those who don’t have a natural aptitude?

Well, one step we could take is not resisting attempts to level the playing field as “woke nonsense” or “socialism” or somehow taking away from more privileged children…..

I have read the first few replies and it shows just how clueless people are.

The reason White Working Class Boys Do Worse is because the education system itself doesnt support these boys.

Boys brains don’t mature at the same rate as girls but even if there isn’t any SEN issues if your child can’t read by the beginning of year 3 then that is education closed down.

Your child might get to “read” a few pages of a book with a TA for 10 minutes per day but there is no concessions in the classrooms

Compare that with those of immigrant children and children whose parents don’t have English as a first language and these children get much more concessions and proper lessons separately to get them up to the level they need to be

If a child was born in the UK then despite not being able to read or write they are expected to be treated the same as those who can read and write
Eg comprehension homework needs to be done regardless as it is the National Curriculum
This group includes those who’s parents/grandparent’s came from the Caribbean

A child who might have lived in the UK from a few days old doesn’t have to do the curriculum homework, (they can’t read or write English) but they get homework that supports them to be able to read and write English from their English as a Foreign Language lessons.

I did ask the question years ago when this idea that children would be able to read by year 3 came up and as there was no exception to this thought process. What happens if your child doesn’t read by year 3 and no one has ever answered the question.

I think it’s family and culture many immigrant groups come from more recently traumatic situations than historical slavery. I’m from an immigrant background myself and frankly trying to find historical reasons for why you couldn’t just do your maths homework is a stretch imo.

Do your parents have expectations around your a) general behaviour b)education. If your kid is in school and paying attention (not getting in trouble inside or outside school, doing the work etc) you are most of the way there. The last bit is parents who pay attention and try to help their kid course correct when things go wrong. Is home life reasonably stable is the other factor.

My home was extremely dysfunctional and often abusive, but the expectations around achievement and behaviour meant we still did fine at school. The home doesn’t have to be perfect by any means for children to do ok.

As someone who moved to the UK as an eight year old who didn’t speak any English, can you tell me about all these mysterious special lessons I supposedly had, because if I had them I was given some pretty impressive memory drugs afterwards.

I think the familial cultural shift hasn't happened with white boys. The requirement for apprenticeships now being a pass in maths and English is preventing one of the traditional routes into employment for working class boys because their culture doesn't value or promote education. Until that cultural shift occurs, with their families, friends, peers groups all promoting and supporting education, things won't change.

I assume the latest iteration of toxic masculinity won't help either.

Some of my more successful white w/c boys have FANTASTIC male role models. I think those men need to be recruited, to go into schools, to promote their attitudes and values. They are such a huge resource and are wasted only using on their 1 or 2 children. They'd have far more affect than any of the actual educators in the classroom (including me!).

I have literally had white w/c boys in my class tell me they didn't need to learn to read (at 14!) because 'reading is for losers' and 'my cousin can't read and is fine' (cousin was in prison!).

I'm not saying they don't exist but I don't think I've ever met anyone that fits that description. I'm still fairly sure the boys I describe would be considered working class by the statisticians. I don't think they came from high earning families and I think most grew up in council houses. Some of them were practically feral with the weaker teachers (weaker in terms of authority). They had no respect for authority and I didn't expect much from them. I have genuinely been surprised (and pleased) at how well most of them seem to have done, financially anyway. It's definitely better for everyone that way.

My partner is actually also from a working class background but with a very different set of values (raised to be very polite - enormous respect for teachers). He still left with very few academic qualifications but has gone on to do well in life financially - far better than me with all my years of study! I think he grew up assuming his parents couldn't afford for him to go to uni so there was no point. He also felt that even when he tried at school the teachers favoured the kids that were high achieving from the start. I don't think he had the extra input into things like spelling that I had in my middle class family as his parents didn't have the luxury of one of them being part time for chunks of his childhood. His parents were bright and hard working though as are he and his siblings.