To wonder why working class white boys do worse than any other ethnic group, and how we can change this?

[Carla786]

A lot of stuff I've read recently has argued the way school is set up disadvantages boys compared to girls. But this doesn't explain why white working class boys would perform worse than wc boys of other ethnicities.
Asian wc boys are more likely to have present fathers,,but black wc boys less likely than white boys (I think). So absent fathers I'm sure are part of the problem, but then maybe also black boys then have a protective factor that still boosts performance which white boys don't have? What could this be?

And how can white wc boys be helped? The question also remains why white wc girls are apparently less affected too : maybe I suppose tying in to school methods being more suited to the average girl?

https://www.spiked-online.com/2026/03/24/the-betrayal-of-white-working-class-boys/

Multi-generational lack of engagement in Education; leading to low aspiration, lack of importance in Education, lack of positive role models, lack of parental support in Education, and a curriculum that feels unachievable.

Maybe white working class dads not valuing education, and telling their sons that they never needed exams so not to bother.

Unfortunately the world of work has changed.

When people have been raised to have no ambitions, no aspirations but blame everyone for their short comings. That’s what you get.

Why would these be worse among white working class boys compared to other ethnic groups though?

I think for Asian and African families there can often be an immigrant-valuation-of-education effect even when circumstances are hard. Black wc boys as a whole are more likely to get involved in crime, as well as to be victims of violent crime, and they're more likely to have absent fathers, but they still have better educational outcomes.

Wouldn't lack of aspiration affect white wc girls as much? I suppose boys may be more likely to disengage from school anyway for various reasons.

Is this common? Definitely the male role model discouraging education would be very unhelpful.

It takes a certain type of person to leave a hard life in one country, migrate to another with very little money or support and make it - the Asian and black families that you describe are often the sorts of people who are driven and strive for a better life for themselves and their children.

There’s a big difference between outcomes among black groups. Black Africans do better than black Caribbean for example.

I've read this elsewhere but not much explanation as to why.

Carribean families could potentially have been here since 1948 or maybe before. African families much more likely to be more recent immigrants. But why this difference? Did events in the post-Windrush decades knock Carribean communities off track?

Blair’s government , and possibly Cameron’s poured money into education and schools in London which brought up the education levels in black boys sadly no one is interested in putting money into the regions so poor outcomes.

Caribbean macho culture?

People coming from the Caribbean suffered multi generational trauma, years of rape torture and abuse. Families ripped apart. Poor education for generations. Low expectations and racism. Passage to England was paid for and open to many.
From African countries many of the migrants are educated and place education high on the agenda. Exceeding at school is expected. Getting here was difficult and required a more complicated route and hence determination.

Lack of aspiration is often deeply entrenched. You’ll have generations who haven’t valued education or been let down by it. The school system isn’t good at engaging the non academic. Boys more likely to muck around and derive a status from this and bunking off. I think girls are more likely to break out of the cycle because of earlier maturity. I say this as someone from a working class, impoverished background where everyone left education as soon as they reached the minimum age. White, working class schools are not great to be in.

I see it in parts of the north east. Large numbers of white working class, mainly boys, in areas experiencing years of economic under investment. This not only impacts the quality of schooling, but means kids don't see the point of going to school if there are no jobs anyway.
There's no motivation from the elites to do anything about it and so it continues.

There’s a theory that suggests it’s related to the history of slavery - more likely to have affected black families from the Caribbean than African countries. A similar pattern is seen in the US - eg more recent migrants from African countries have better educational attainment than black people whose ancestors have bern in the US for very long periods.

Have you read the article you linked to, OP? It includes some ideas which may help you answer your questions.

Apparently there is a strong tie to geography.

Children from poor ethnic backgrounds tend to live in the south, in big cities which have huge resources and programs in place targeting this.

Poor working class white boys disproportionately come from the north, and smaller towns. Towns that have been decimated by de industrialisation.

Not only have traditional family units been destroyed but all structures and organisations with strong male role models that once could help guide boys through to successful manhood have also fallen. ie Local sports teams, scouts, church groups, teaching staff now predominantly women etcetera.
And unlike big cities there are few resources to target and ameliorate the impact of this societal poverty.

Very few kids would succeed if (a bog standard) school was their only education. Parents need to compliment that teaching at home, tutoring their kids after work, helping with homework, filling in gaps. For that to happen they need to value education enough to make their kids see it as non negotiable, and enough for parents to sacrifice their limited free time to it. Coming from an asian background, my first generation parents did this with me, and in turn I do it with my kids. My grandparents pride and joy was their wall full of their kids and grandkids graduation photos. Many families of colour do this by default - education is king.

I know people in the Carribean suffered terribly during the slave trade and racism was strong in the years after.
Otoh slavery was banned in 1834. So people coming in 1948 or later would have been born probably a century or nearly that afterwards. Otoh we don't know how much trauma can continue over generations,,and obviously racism continued after slavery ended.

I read the Indo-Trinidadian Sam Selvon's 1956 book The Lonely Londoners recently. It showed a lot of the men being stuck in unstable jobs, partly due to discrimination, and marriages suffering as a result. Women may have been able to get stabler jobs (eg. In NHS) and this I suppose could have at least partly led some boys & men to de-emphasise work?

That explains a lot, the tie to geography. Inner city wc kids clearly do have a lot of issues to contend with but there is more investment.
Why did men stop wanting to be teachers? Scouts : aside from the abuse scandals, it turned mixed because not enough boys wanted to go. Why? And how can these things be changed?

I agree re role of secularisation meaning less church things. SureStart going didn't help.

This thread is interesting. So when black boys fail, it's because of racism and trauma. When white boys fail, it's the parents.

Well I've noted myself that absent fathers are a problem for more black boys than white boys.

Parental attitudes to education are probably an issue for both, but as pp said, educational funding for London probably offsets it.

White working class and black Caribbean heritage boys both lack strong religious and cultural standards of expectations and behaviour. This does have a negative impact on education and achievement.

This definitely

I'd always thought Carribean families tended to be quite religious? Or is that not correct?
Agree re the need for strong cultural standards, religious ones can also be helpful

I've noticed that there are quite a lot of relatively recent affluent middle class immigrants from African countries like Nigeria. Just think about the African names of black British film and TV stars. So they're going to have social and economic advantages over more working class black Caribbean people.