To just hate having a woman's body

[Redgreenbluetwo]

Maybe it's cos everything has happened at once today, but I just hate having a woman's body, and DH doesn't know how lucky he is.

Meant to be going on a spa day tomorrow with my friend. Obviously I got my period today. It fucking hurts, is a mess, and makes tomorrow more difficult. On top of that I have to go through the rigmarole of hair removal. I hate having dark hair and having to shave my armpits most days. Just such a pain in the arse. Now I have to do my bikini line later as well, and woe betide me if my legs are ever prickly. And my bra has been giving me gyp at work all day too.

Just bugger off with it all.

DH has to worry about none of those things. Sometimes I just hate it. I can't really remember what it was like to be a kid and not have the hassle of these things either but they really are just so bloody annoying!! And we have childbirth. And I have the menopause to look forward to. Men can be as hairy as they like, have no periods, no bras, no anything. Aaarggh!

Well, what looks "good" or "nice" is both culturally determined at a mainstream level and also wildy individual/subjective. I think my hairy armpits look good, and I generally find them attractive on men and other women.

How can the urge to "groom", by which I assume you mean depilate, be to do with reproduction rather then society when women's body hair is a natural secondary sex characteristic and fertility marker? It appears at puberty and largely disappears at menopause. That isn't a coincidence.

I prefer to look like a natural woman of reproductive age rather than prepubescent/post-menopausal and sterile.The only female humans who are naturally hairless on their bodies are too young to reproduce, too old to reproduce, or have some health condition that may make them unable to reproduce, such as a Disorder of Sexual Development or undergoing chemotherapy. How could attraction to that have anything to do with reproduction?

No, no, when I said "groom" I meant the whole shebang. Hair, makeup, nice clothes, perfume, shaving, accessorising, etc. Whatever of these things that people like to do - or all, if applicable.

I think that fashions are dictated by society, absolutely. But the human urge to groom, most pronounced in females, is found in the earliest civilisations, according to archeological finds, and we know that kohl was being used as eyeliner in pre-Christian times at least. And there was no photography or TV or magazine or internet advertising back then, as far as I'm told!

As I said, I wouldn't be surprised if the impulse to polish and decorate oneself is actually an ingrained mating strategy and not so much to do with society.

Indeed. But remembering there are worse things that could befall me than a minor irritation, and feeling all the better for it, wouldn't meet even the most liberal definition of the term.

How is that relevant if she says she’s not having another child? Although I think anyone who casually talks about getting their breasts “lopped off” doesn’t have a clue about the pain and discomfort of a mastectomy

I'm 61, married, senior civil servant. Gym three times a week, sea swim once a week. Is that relevant? To be honest I'm not sure what would be relevant?

Because I find in certain contexts, it’s less socially acceptable for some of these standards that are expected of women.

Not read the whole thread, but Mirena coils were a life changer for me. No periods at all and have, I believe, made the menopause so much easier. I know they don't work as well for everyone but it might be worth considering if you haven't already

I'm with you on periods, just horrendous, the pain, the mess, the mood swings, breast discomfort. and the way they always seem to arrive at the wrong time even when you track the wretched thing. Menopause means the end of them but brings another set of issues so yes I agree it is a struggle being the owner of a female body. I would not want to be a man though.

You don't need to do it at all, but even if you prefer to do it, I question how many people 'get lucky' or wear skimpy clothes every day. Why every day?

"but there were societies that were actually matriarchal"

Which ones? I don't know of any. I think there have been very few.
I've heard of matrilineal societies, but that's a different things. In those ones, the person responsible for a woman's children are her brother because it's the maternal family line that matters, but it's still the men in charge really.

I suppose people who do it every day just like the way it looks and feels.

If you google "matriarchal societies in history" there's some interesting info. and lists of examples. In addition to the list below, a number of pre-Christian societies, like paganism in Britain, held women in much higher status than they are today, although it can't be said that pagan societies were matriarchal since men had power too. I think women had a lot more power in certain Viking societies too.

From Google:

Matriarchal societies, where women hold primary power, authority, and control over property and descent, have existed throughout history, often characterized by matrilineal descent (lineage through the mother) and matrilocal residence (living with the mother's family). Notable examples include the Mosuo in China, the Khasi of India, the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois), and ancient cultures like the Minoans

Key Historical and Contemporary Matriarchal/Matrilineal Societies:

• Mosuo (China): Often cited as a contemporary matriarchy, women (specifically the matriarch) head households, manage property, and inherit lineage.
• Khasi (India): A matrilineal society where the youngest daughter inherits ancestral property, and lineage is traced through the mother
• .
• Haudenosaunee (Iroquois Confederacy): North American Indigenous society where clan mothers held the power to select and depose male chiefs and controlled agricultural resources.
• Minangkabau (Indonesia): Recognized as the world's largest matrilineal society, where women inherit land and property.
• Akan (Ghana): A West African group where lineage and inheritance pass through the female line.
• Bribri (Costa Rica): Indigenous community where women are guardians of land, heritage, and the only ones allowed to prepare sacred cacao.
• Ancient Minoans (Crete, 2600–1450 B.C.): Often cited as a historically significant society where women held high status and played prominent roles in religious and social life.
• +5

Key Characteristics of Matriarchal Studies: Matriliny vs. Matriarchy: Many, but not all, matriarchal systems are matrilineal (descent through the mother). Economic Power: In most matrilineal systems, women manage property, land, and resources. Power Dynamics: These societies do not necessarily practice "male oppression" but rather focus on female-centered kinship and community, often prioritizing nurturing and equality over authoritarian rule. Rise of Patriarchy: Many scholars suggest matriarchal structures were more common in the Neolithic era, with patriarchal systems becoming dominant after 3000 BCE.

Or they feel (consciously or unconsciously) pressured to do so by the societal expectations of our sexist world. Who can say?

You partly backed up my point that some of these societies were matrilineal rather than matriarchal and also that women being relatively powerful is not the same as women being in charge of men.
I'll have to look into your Viking argument because I'm not convinced by it at first sight.

That doesn't explain the 'every day'.
I like the way my flat looks when I've dusted, hoovered and mopped. I still don't do it every day!

Yeah, yeah…it’s a choice to remove body hair… we’ve been socially conditioned, blah blah. Well, yeah we have! And so feel a need and want to do these things. Most women do not feel comfortable going swimming with visible pubes coming out of their costume! It is natural? Yes. Is it social conditioning? Yes. We can’t change that. Some women feel happy to go against it, while some don’t…neither is better than the other

"Most women do not feel comfortable going swimming with visible pubes coming out of their costume!"

Sure, but she's doing it every day, not to go swimming and then also complaining about it.

"Some women feel happy to go against it, while some don’t…neither is better than the other"

Actually, not complaining about something that is just a choice on your part and blaming it on having a woman's body would be better.

@Gwenhwyfar

but if she didn’t have a woman’s body she wouldn’t feel that pressure and expectation would she? That’s a fact. If I could be born again I would certainly rather be male than female…so much easier

"but if she didn’t have a woman’s body she wouldn’t feel that pressure and expectation would she?"

Most women don't feel pressured to shave EVERY day so it's not about having a woman's body. I'd say it's more common for men to shave their faces EVERY day.
Obviously not having periods would make life easier, but I think some of that is poo gynaecological care and poor healthcare for women and not just the bodies we're born with.

Touched that this thread is still going on several days later.

I don't shave every day. But I have dark hair and fair skin so if I don't shave every other day then my underarm stubble is very visible. I prefer it not to be. It's only a minute in the shower but still. And my pubes are a similar annoyance when I have to trim them. For both aesthetic and confidence reasons I just feel like I have to do it.

As for.periods - my complaint is nothing to do with poor healthcare. I am lucky in that I've never had any irregularities that have needed medical attention. They're just annoying! Every month since I was 12 years old. Pain, mess, expense, just having to think and plan.

Yes and clothes too.
men just have tops & bottoms.
everything goes with everything within the categories of smart, casual & smart/casual.

With a woman dressing you need the right bra with the right top with the right bottoms the right pants & the right socks & shoes. What a headache every single morning.

Point is that boobs play a role in sex and arousal - as I wrote above, having them touched by the RIGHT man feels like heaven. But yeah, if you don't want sex or babies, not much point. Agree re. your last point.

Only if you're interested in clothes. I am, but one of my butch friends dresses like a man. She wears a bra, but probably doesn't worry whether it's the right bra with the right top, etc.

Please go to an expert and have a proper bra fitting. I don't think they should be uncomfortable, I never think about mine (do have small boobs though). You can get soft bras.....

Capsule wardrobe and flesh coloured underwear. I I have never managed this in everyday life, before you shout at me. Next are doing nice sets of clothes at the moment. A few holidays ago, on fairly minimal packing, I packed navy, yellow and white clothes so everything went with everything. Game changer.