to want to carry on working so I do not end up doing childcare?

[skizz]

I mentioned to my DC that I was thinking about retiring, just exploring options, nothing even decided yet. Their immediate response was along the lines of “oh that would be perfect, you could help with childcare, school pickups, when they are ill, that sort of thing.”

I actually do not want to give up work and slide into being on-call childcare. I like working. I like having my own routine, my own space and my own independence. The idea that any flexibility automatically gets translated into availability for childcare does not appeal to me whatsoever.

I have friends who do regular childcare for their grandchildren and honestly they are constantly picking up bugs, dealing with sickness, plans being cancelled last minute because a child is ill. It looks absolutely exhausting. It is not how they imagined retirement but they got railroaded into it by their daughters/DILs.

I would rather keep working than be doing childcare.

Do you spend all your free time helping others? I don’t mean that disrespectfully, it is great if you wish to do that but do you think others should wish to spend all their free time doing so?

Do you think it is unkind for someone to have a hobby? To go to the gym? To go to a dance class? To run a business? If they spend some time helping others, is it unkind to spend the rest of their time as they choose? Or do you think they should spend their time as you choose?

I did challenge my friends but they said it was only the DDs/DILs railroading them and the men didn't get involved.

The irony of that is unbelievable.. you keep harping on about grandfathers not being asked to do childcare, and women unfairly being expected to be unpaid carers .. (which historically speaking, grandfathers would not have done the childcare when they're children were little, the grandmothers would have, so there is a reason grandmothers are usually asked for childcare and grandfathers are usually asked to help with DIY/giving lifts/practical help in all forms).

But you (and your friend) are completely excusing the MEN in your daughters lives* from any childcare responsibility for their own children NOW. *You are personally perpetuating the very thing you are complaining about.. in this day and age men 'opting out' of childcare and childcare decisions is unacceptable and should not be tolerated.. yet according to you and your friend it is just the women asking and the men are having no input at all.

But my friends said it was the DDs/DILs doing the railroading. The men didn't get involved in the childcare arrangements (which says a lot about them).

yet also.. DD wants me to look after her baby 3 days a week and pick up her older child from school.

Interesting, is it not, that even though they are all married, it is the women in your lives that are doing the "railroading", so I go back to my original statement that if you want to know why women are under pressure to do unpaid caring work when they get older, it is purely because they have raised daughters who seem to think they are entitled to it! Not all of us are so selfish.

Maybe you should ask your daughter why she expects you to do free childcare?

@OutsideLookingOut really weird to be snarky about someone just helping other people.

I literally haven't said at any point that people should spend all their free time helping others so I don't know why you would demand that of me or anyone else. I have hobbies, I have a social life, I go to the gym and I travel. I work full time and I still find time to help people I love and my community. My parents have a social life, travel have hobbies etc. and find time to help. Both can exsist at the same time.

I have never said you have to give up the clothes off your back and self flagellate to be a nice person. Just that not helping people (that you supposedly love) when you have the ability to isn't nice.

@OutsideLookingOut the only example I gave (which was just an example) of how the op could potentially help was 2 days a week - not all her free time so please don't fabricate the idea I think she should have no life at all outside of supporting her children.

The absolute opposite I’ve tried to be is snarky. I am happy for you that you enjoy helping people and wish to do it a lot. I absolutely do not think people need to do it to the same level as you and if they don’t then they are unkind.

If you believe that then why are you calling people unkind for not helping the way you want to? OP and others just don’t want to do fixed childcare. This does not make them unkind.

All I said is that not doing 2 days a week does not make her unkind. I also do think it would not work with 9 grandchildren - someone might feel left out and resentful. Not doing fixed childcare or giving days a week does not make her unkind. There are ways to help people.

Bloody hell op. Really hope you enjoy your retirement when you get there! 😁. I haven't got kids, so certainly won't be looking after any kids when I'm older 😆. However, I have lots of siblings. My mum said to them 'i've done my childrearing, if you have kids, you look after them yourselves'. And she didn't. And not one of my siblings minded. As they're not knobheads. There wasn't any hard feelings. Everyone gets together and it's lovely and harmonious.
Bloody crackers the entitlement of folk. I hear it all the time at work. And yes, it's always women!
one poor woman had just been diagnosed with breast cancer and her daughter was still expecting her to look after 2 kids 3 days a week.
Mind boggled.

@OutsideLookingOut I haven't said people who don't do as much as me or more than me are unkind, I gave examples of things that I do because someone asked.

I have also said there are many different ways to help and support loved ones, that doesn't have to be fixed childcare and OP has either ignored or shot down all of them, I am sure there are many other forms that I have not even thought of too.

If you have the ability and do not want to help people you love at all, in whatever capacity that may be it is not nice, if you think that is controversial then I am frankly baffled.

I don’t think she has, she had just been insistent on not doing fixed childcare which is perfectly reasonable.

And no, people live all the time doing a balance of things for themselves and others (or they should). If my helping someone interferes with my own plans then it is my choice whether I do so or not. I also consider how great the need or want of my time is. Time is previous.

For example, I love my mum but I’m not helping her all the time as she can do things herself and I’m living my life. It doesn’t stop me loving her. The same way if a friend is ill, I’ll bring over soup but I don’t do this on the weekly when they are well. Just because it is wanted doesn’t mean I need to do it.

The same way you enjoy your gym time, girls events etc hopefully not feeling guilty that you might be helping someone instead. Loving someone does not mean I want to help them all the time with everything (not even most things - I know you did not say all).

But you (and your friend) are completely excusing the MEN in your daughters lives from any childcare responsibility for their own children NOW. You are personally perpetuating the very thing you are complaining about.. in this day and age men 'opting out' of childcare and childcare decisions is unacceptable and should not be tolerated.. yet according to you and your friend it is just the women asking and the men are having no input at all.

You keep harping. I am not excusing the men. No I haven't gone to each man concerned and challenged him about why he is not getting involved with childcare.

Yes my DD did ask for childcare help but so did my DS. I asked them both why and they said it would help them financially not to pay for childcare.

This is correct. I am not keep on doing fixed childcare.

I am not sure why you are so baffled. Do you not understand that everybody is not the same?

You are amazing wonderful and superb for doing so much! Well done.

People are allowed to make different choices.

YOU are the one constantly questioning why men not being expected to do anything, most of your posts are about the unfairness of just that.. yet here you are (and your friend) automatically exempting the men in your children's lives from the responsibility of sorting out childcare. I'm not trying to argue with you for the sake of it, I'm pointing out your own hypocrisy.. surely if you felt so strongly about the injustice of unpaid caring being designated a woman's job, you certainly wouldn't be tolerating that from people in your own life.. yet you are.

You have already said your DD has the unreasonable expectation of wanting you to look after her baby AND also doing the school run for her older kids.. Which is what your entire thread is about.. you don't want to be railroaded into doing more than you are comfortable with,* *like your friend has been, and that is exactly what your DD is doing to you. The fact that they are just doing it just to save money is even worse IMO, they can afford childcare but they think they are entitled to it for free from you and will continue to put pressure on until you relent and do what they want.

Honestly OP, I'd suggest you stop complaining about the injustice in the world and get your own house in order first.

Calling it hypocrisy assumes people have equal power to enforce their beliefs in their own lives. They don’t. You can think it’s unfair that men dodge childcare and still be dealing with a son-in-law dodges childcare. Those two things can exist at the same time. Not every woman is in a position to “correct” the men around her without causing fallout for her daughter or grandchildren. T

It puts the responsibility back onto the woman again. Women end up carrying the load. Now the argument is she should fix it? So not only is she expected to do childcare, she’s also expected to reform the behaviour of the men in the family. That is more unpaid emotional and social labour.

Harping on about get your own house in order first. Really? People are allowed to talk about unfairness. I haven't agreed to any childcare so what exactly do I need to get in order? Yes DD and DS asked but I did not agree to anything.

Just tell them you're not retiring.How would they know?

@OutsideLookingOut You points about soup and helping you mother are irrelevant as these people have not asked for your help.

If someone I loved made it known to me that they needed my help, and I was able I would help.

@skizz Yes I do not understand it at all. I am baffled that you don't want to help people you love yes. I think it is horrible and I cannot wrap my head around being comfortable with being so self indulgent. I think it is a sad reflection of society today and it horrifies me. "what about me" is toxic

If someone wanted something I thought was unreasonable I would say no. I do not feel obliged to say yes to anything no matter what it does to me. It depends on their need and how able I to do it. If they just want it but can do it by other means…

Imagine, you would be at the mercy of every cheeky loved one lol. My uncles, all older than my mum, thought she should pay their rent and give them money. She is not rich by any means. They could in fact do this (they thought she was paid more than them and as her brothers they deserved this).

@OutsideLookingOut I haven't said that anyone should so anything unreasonable or damaging to themselves to help so I don't understand why you are saying that

But it doesn’t have to be unreasonable or damaging in your opinion. Doing days of childcare would be unreasonable to OP. That is all that matters.

@OutsideLookingOut Thankfully all my loved ones are normal but I say no to things I am unable to do all the time.

Yes thankfully but as you see not everyone’s are, including OPs own children. She clearly did not feel empowered enough to say no to them like we can. Calling her unkind for not wanting to do something ( understandable to many of us) isn’t going to make her feel more empowered.

(My mum from a very sexual culture. Many admire the village aspect but my mum hated it as she was overworked. You either give in or if you are able to it makes you analyse everything more carefully and you are forced to live intentionally and learn to say no)

How do you know what help I provide already? You have described in huge detail all the wonderful amazing things you do. I do not need to do that. You have no idea yet you keep going on about not helping people love whilst having no idea about my life,

Why is self indulgent to want time to myself? If I don't keep giving and giving myself to others then that is all about me and I am toxic?

What a bizarre way to think. I would suggest your way of thinking is toxic.

@skizz ok go on then what do you provide?

They wouldn't! I don't normally go round telling everyone when I have a day off either.