to want to carry on working so I do not end up doing childcare?

[skizz]

I mentioned to my DC that I was thinking about retiring, just exploring options, nothing even decided yet. Their immediate response was along the lines of “oh that would be perfect, you could help with childcare, school pickups, when they are ill, that sort of thing.”

I actually do not want to give up work and slide into being on-call childcare. I like working. I like having my own routine, my own space and my own independence. The idea that any flexibility automatically gets translated into availability for childcare does not appeal to me whatsoever.

I have friends who do regular childcare for their grandchildren and honestly they are constantly picking up bugs, dealing with sickness, plans being cancelled last minute because a child is ill. It looks absolutely exhausting. It is not how they imagined retirement but they got railroaded into it by their daughters/DILs.

I would rather keep working than be doing childcare.

How is it an unpleasant and divisive thread? People post about their situations all the time on here. You have posted a lot on this thread that you consider unpleasant and divisive.

You are giving me a hard time because of something I thought about and wanted to get some feedback on. I have had some great feedback from quite a few posters.

@skizz oh behave loads of people have pointed it out, you are conveniently ignoring them just like you ignored the posts that disagree with you.

I am giving you a hard time because I think it is a shitty thing to not help your children when you are able even if they are adults.

@Differentforgirls what a shame to be nasty for no reason then, are you unhappy at home? I hope you feel better soon.

Surely it is upto the person whatever they choose to respond to. That is not how forums work that every OP must accept every single post and opinion.

You might think it is shitty not to help your children. Great! For my situation it would be retiring and then trying to give equal childcare to 9 grandchildren. Are you retiring to help with childcare for 9 grandchildren?

I’m as happy as Larry but you seem a bit bitter for such a young woman?

@Differentforgirls I don't though do I - I haven't said anything bitter I have just challenged behaviour and opinions I disagree with, you are the one who has resorted to name calling.

@skizz If my children need my help and I am able to help them I will help them. You work - you can't help them it is a non issue that you have created to make this thread.
If you don't want to help them at all because you would rather relax all week then that just isn't very nice.
If you actually wanted to help you would find a way around it - for example, you could do one pick up per family per fortnight that would help out your children and still have 5 days free to do whatever you like.

But they don’t want you to get to decide. I mean who are you? You don’t get to say how much time you want to yourself if any. You should be enthusiastic to be a human support person entirely at the whims of those who want or need your help. Choosing to give them what you feel you can deserves censure and mockery.

Why can’t she choose how she helps? Why is it mean not to give a day of childcare a week? What if she wants to be there for ad-hoc or sick days? What if she wants to help financially? What if she wants to take grandchildren put on trips instead? What if she prefers to help financially or with their studies? Why can’t she choose?

People help their children in different ways. My eldest is the same age as you. We supported him financially through a degree and a masters and we helped him emotionally through a really bad break up.

We are still his emotional support.

My youngest was seriously ill for years with Diabetes type one.He nearly died several times and I took time off work to get him over the fact that he wasn’t the same as his friends and he needed to see food as something that isn’t the enemy.

I got disciplined for it. Final written warning.

I am still his go to person if he needs advice. He just got engaged to his long term girlfriend and she still can’t get over the fact that I knew everything and didn’t tell her. She loves me for it.

I supported my parents at the same time when my dad was in a locked ward due to a delirium and I had to go to see him every day because I loved him, having to do his washing etc and look after his home while working full time and trying to make sure my mum was ok.

All this, my mum dying, my dad dying in the locked ward, my son having to take a year out of uni due to the break up, my youngest having major hypos and being blue lighted to hospital so many times that none of us slept a wink due worrying he would die, including his brother.

We are through it now, but you think support means childcare. It doesn’t.

It is easy to say help them.

It is not a case one pick up per family per fortnight. DD wants me to look after her baby 3 days a week and pick up her older child from school. The other DC want help also.

I have not retired yet so not in a position to do any childcare in the week. There are several things for me to think about - not just helping with childcare. I need to consider whether I can fully afford to retire. That will come first before helping DC.

@OutsideLookingOut @Differentforgirls I think you have both misunderstood my example, that's all it was an example of what she could do, not what I think she should do.
I think she should help if she is able. Full stop.

How she chooses to help is up to her. As you both say, help means lots of different things.

As I have said earlier I help and support my older family too, I shop clean and garden for my grandparents weekly now they are past driving, I pop in for company in the week too. I have never said that childcare is the only help you can provide family.

I agree with that, in a society we should all help each other - especially our families but I think it is do important we choose how and how much we give.

Historically, female unpaid labour has been expected and undervalued. It is good if women push back against that especially when it impacts them (especially their pensions and retirement and general wellbeing).

OP has 9 grandchildren and it is only natural she set boundaries from now — that does not mean she does not love her family.

@OutsideLookingOut You may disagree but to me her posts just shut down any discussion of what she may be able to do if she is able to help post retirement, as if she is actively looking for a way to not help.

If she is able to help - in whatever form that might be she should, we should feel a duty to our families regardless of what stage of life we are in. (abuse aside) The disintegration of community is miserable, and it costs us all.

We should feel a duty to our families regardless of what stage of life we are in - these expectations do not apply to men in the same way. It is still women do most of the unpaid labour as @OutsideLookingOut mentioned. Women are also criticised for not doing childcare in ways that are men are mostly not.

Where do you hear about grandfathers not helping with childcare and how that leads to a disintegration of comnunity? You don't

But, you have judged the OP and basically told me that I must be a lonely old woman for having different views from you.

Just to be clear, I’m not.

BTW, where are your in laws in all
this?

My time has been taken up recently with my lovely 87 year old MIL being diagnosed with cancer so pretty much most of our time has been spent on that, plus the engagement and the fact that my youngest and his partner are going to Australia for 4 weeks in September and we’re in charge of the cat who hates everyone except her owner (sons fiancé) and my husband. She even hates my son who has looked after her since she was a kitten. 🤣

MIL is fine btw. Had her operation etc.

So, my next priority is organising a day out. She has 4 sons, no daughters, I have two, no daughters. My SIL has one, no daughters. My MIL has no sisters, neither do I.

But she loves her days out with her two DILs and her grandson’s partners.

We all then come back to mine and the numerous men are there 😊

Plus I did the same as you with my granny. My (now) husband and me went to see her every Wednesday after work and she had so much ready for us to eat. She put my husband off salmon for years 🤣

I’m trying to say that family support comes in many different forms.

I apologise for offending you.

@Differentforgirls My in laws help us out too my parents do two pick ups and one full day with my preschool daughter, my in laws do two nursery/school pickups I have said in previous posts but I appreciate it is a long thread. Again they offered and they love spending time with us and our children. We don't need the help they just want to do it. When the children were younger (pre funding) they used to do two full days each.

We don't help any elderly people on my husband side because they are all dead, when they were alive we helped them out too though.

I didn't call you old or lonely at any point - I said the only reason I can think to randomly insult a stranger is jealousy. You deny that which is fine, but I would still be interested to know the real reason.

I agree family support comes in many many forms, and I also feel that the OP has either shut down or ignored suggestions of things she could do if she wanted to - but it feels like she doesn't want to, which I find unpleasant. (not talking about not being able to help that is besides the point)

@skizz "these expectations do not apply to men in the same way" I disagree with this, through my own experience and from the multiple posts on here that you have ignored.

OP I completely get where you’re coming from. I’ve been providing childcare for DGC for more than 20 years now (big gap between eldest and youngest). I’m tired and want the freedom to do my own thing before I get too old, but my youngest DC expects the same level of childcare that their older siblings got which I can understand.
Enjoy being with your DGC but don’t get sucked into a regular commitment.

There’s no real reason.

They can expect all they want, but that doesn't mean they get.

Spell it out to them that you are tired and too old.
Don't be used.
I have seen too much of it and then it is too late because health has deteriorated.

Health, fitness and agility are not finite resources.

They are very precious.
When they are gone, they are gone.

I would take a long hard look at any child telling you they were "entitled" to childcare.

Truth is they are entitled to jack shit!

So DD expects you to give up paid employment so that you can look after her baby and after school care for her child THREE DAYS A WEEK, presumably for free?

I think that this is a huge ask and you'd be far from unreasonable to say "NO".

What bit of "I'm retiring because I'm knackered" don't children understand? I'm retiring because I want some time to myself, not to serve my children. I'm sure there's a happy medium between three days a week childcare and not seeing the at all.

It sounds like retirement would be just as much work for a lot less money!

There is a difference between generalities and personal experiences. For example, there is a gender pay gap but it doesn’t mean every woman is paid less than a man. Mothers generally do more housework - this doesn’t mean your husband does not do his fair share.

I think most studies still show women do the bulk of unpaid care.

Great that you have different experiences and so do all the posters.

https://www.unwomen.org/en/articles/faqs/faqs-what-is-unpaid-care-work-and-how-does-it-power-the-economy

Women are still doing the majority of unpaid care work.

@skizz I think ignoring them is just looking for an echo chamber. Yes women have historically done more unpaid care, but pretending there aren't many families who don't work like that just makes it look like you want to be proven correct.

Help them or don't help them in which ever way you deem fit - but if you (or a man) are choosing not to help their family then I don't think they are very nice.

Ignoring the posts is looking for an echo chamber? Extensive research with a much larger population shows women are still doing most of the unpaid labour. That is much more representative than your experience and others on this thread.

When are men told it is not very nice if you don't help? Too much focus and expectations on women.

You just added or a man for the first time.