to want to carry on working so I do not end up doing childcare?

[skizz]

I mentioned to my DC that I was thinking about retiring, just exploring options, nothing even decided yet. Their immediate response was along the lines of “oh that would be perfect, you could help with childcare, school pickups, when they are ill, that sort of thing.”

I actually do not want to give up work and slide into being on-call childcare. I like working. I like having my own routine, my own space and my own independence. The idea that any flexibility automatically gets translated into availability for childcare does not appeal to me whatsoever.

I have friends who do regular childcare for their grandchildren and honestly they are constantly picking up bugs, dealing with sickness, plans being cancelled last minute because a child is ill. It looks absolutely exhausting. It is not how they imagined retirement but they got railroaded into it by their daughters/DILs.

I would rather keep working than be doing childcare.

I'm a troll now? Give over 🤣

It’s not stupid to bring grandfathers into it at all.

If you’re talking about expectations on grandparents, you can’t just focus on grandmothers and ignore the other half. That already tells you something about who people expect to step in.

The argument about past roles doesn’t fully explain what’s happening now. A grandfather not doing childcare is just seen as normal. A grandmother saying no gets way more pushback and criticism. That’s not just history, that’s current expectations.

The DIY example actually shows the same thing. You call the FIL for practical jobs without thinking, and the MIL gets called for childcare. Both are just assumed roles people get slotted into. DIY is occasional, childcare is generally more intensive and regular.

Yeah, I am never going to call my mother for DIY help. Yes it’s an assumption, but she’d think I’d gone round the bend. The only screwdriver she knows is the drink.

It is assumed because that’s the tradition.

So traditionally, a young man would have been taught DIY skills while a young woman would have been taught child care skills. So when they become parents and then grandparents, those are the presumed roles and often the only roles they can do.

This is why it takes generations for societies to evolve. Early adopters will start with the younger generation, but society still has to wait until they are grandparents before there is any discernable change. Then there is the push back until eventually, the change becomes mainstream. So that is at least another few generations, call it 150yrs

Only then would the tradition then start to shift. We still have some time to go.

The DIY example actually shows the same thing. You call the FIL for practical jobs without thinking, and the MIL gets called for childcare. Both are just assumed roles people get slotted into.

Of course it isn't, they aren't assumed roles, and I don't "call them without thinking" (another silly thing to say).. you're assumption that I call them based on their gender shows how much you are trying to cram this into your own narrative.

MIL loves having the grandchildren round, cooking, ironing, tidying up, crafts, baking, gardening (mostly flowers) she would help me in a moment's notice as they are all things she is good at and enjoys doing. I don't think she has ever done any DIY in her life, she wouldn't know where to start assembling furniture or measuring up for carpets etc..

My FIL loves doing anything practical, ALL DIY, painting, sports, gardening (hedge trimming, mowing), driving/mechanics, giving lifts, he's very a very practical man and while he loves his grandchildren immensely, he doesn't particularly enjoy looking after them in the same way MIL does, so I wouldn't ask him to do.. in the same way I wouldn't ask MIL to change a tyre or put up a shelf.

They are the actual (not assumed) roles they have chosen to follow in life, probably due to societal expectations/norms at the time they were growing up and then getting married and having children, and playing to each others strengths and weaknesses within their marriage.. no one is assuming anything.

YOU are the one focusing on childcare, so the whadaboutery regarding grandfathers IS silly in most cases... In the same way you won't generally hear people bleating on about the unfairness of grandmothers never being asked to do DIY/Car mechanics.

Of course in YOUR family it might genuinely be about who enjoys what and what they’re good at. No one’s saying you personally are sitting there thinking right, she’s the woman so she gets the kids. But those preferences didn’t just appear out of nowhere.

So when you say these are actual roles they’ve chosen”, it’s only partly true. They’re also the roles that were available and reinforced at the time. That’s why you see the same pattern in loads of families, not just yours.

That’s where bringing grandfathers in isn’t silly. It’s not whataboutery, it’s pointing out the pattern. If it was purely about individual preference, you’d expect a more even mix across families. But you don’t, it’s very often grandmothers doing childcare and grandfathers doing the practical stuff.

The DIY comparison isn’t quite the same. Men are not emotionally or socially judged for not fixing a shelf. But grandmothers absolutely ARE judged for not helping with children. There are expectations for older women in relation to childcare that doesn’t exist in the same way with practical jobs for men.

I’d 100% judge my father if he couldn’t fix a shelf. He can fix anything.

IMO the older generation didn’t choose the roles, society did and women didn’t have any choice. The pay gap that still exists meant women were the ones to give up work and do childcare. There is still a pay gap and stil the expectation that women do childcare. Most men I know on the other hand seem
to not have the patience to do childcare neither can
they do DIY.

It’s sexist and women get dumped with it because they ‘better’ at it.

Because it should be "railroaded by their daughter's or sons" !!!

I do actually think that men are also judged on their roles - man jobs, blue jobs etc.

I bet they did!! All parents and GPs have bad days where they struggle and want a break and a rant. Very normal and nothing to be ashamed of.

you were lucky to get help but I’m sure they had those feelings too as sometime.

i don’t think you can say “no they didn’t” unless you were in their heads.

they love an argument.

nothing you said was creepy or personal. then calling you obsessed was more of a personal attack than anything you said.

this is a forum where we can discuss.

some posters don’t want to discuss. They will argue against anyone who disagrees with them.

Yes on their jobs.

Grandfathers are rarely judged if they do not do childcare.

I agree.

But my friends said it was the DDs/DILs doing the railroading. The men didn't get involved in the childcare arrangements (which says a lot about them).

I know they didn’t because they still wanted to see them on my days off!

Noone is saying they didn't want to be Grandparents. But I'm sure there would have been days where they weren't feeling their best or would rather not have had to get out of bed or days where your DC may have been particularly hard work and they may have had a grumble just like the friends in the OP. I love being a Mum, that doesn't mean there aren't days that I find hard or days I would rather be somewhere else.

@Differentforgirls weird thing to accuse them of, they just like us, they like our kids and they want to help because they like to.

"they infantilise you" just sounds like nasty jealousy to me.

Either jealous you didn't get help, or jealous that you don't like your own family enough to want to help. I can't think of any other reason for dishing out random insults to a stranger.

I did get help. Do you always take things so personally? You seem to think everyone should live like you. Guess what? Human beings live diverse lives and considering the insults you have aimed at the OP all the way through this thread - and now me, I can assure you that the last thing I feel towards you is “jealousy”. Grow up.

@Differentforgirls why else would you say something mean?

I haven't insulted the OP I have given her a hard time because I think the has intentionally posted an unpleasant and divisive thread.

At least you admit giving her a hard time.

@Differentforgirls why wouldn't I give her a hard time I think her views are awful and she has posted this thread in bad faith.

You still haven't told me why you decided to insult me.

I don’t know what post you mean.

I see it now. Don’t give it out if you can’t take it back.

Also, go and pick a fight with someone else. 👍

@Differentforgirls
You know, where you said you think my parents infantilise me, that one.
More than happy to "take it" I was even happy to explain my reasoning, super odd you can't explain yourself though.

I don’t have to. It was plain English.