Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
QuintadosMalvados · 15/04/2026 06:47

All 4 of my grandparents were aged between 40-45 when I was born in the late seventies and no they were not chavs.
Far, far from it. They've all died now but this is how it used to be.
Reginald Perrin is a reminder of that.

It's sad but there are so many factors here at play as to why women are expected to take care of grandchildren as childcare.
Some unavoidable, some not.

BlueberrySummerCloud · 15/04/2026 06:47

GreenChameleon · 15/04/2026 06:44

I agree that grandmothers do not owe their children childcare. But I do think that in most cases, they will see very little of their grandchildren because the GC's parents will have extremely full lives. It's unreasonable to think that someone who is in their thirties or forties, with children, a job to hold down, a house to run, a relationship, friends you'd like to see, will have time to visit their parents more often than once a fortnight. This will negatively impact the relationship with their grandchildren because they don't see much of them. So, if you don't want to do childcare, don't come whining that you don't see enough of your GCs!

Children are not pawns in people lives to be used as a bargaining tool
My parents lived a couple of hours a way, we saw them once a month and they had a lovely relationship with DC
My own GM was in a different country
I saw her once a year and absolutely adored her

Bringemout · 15/04/2026 06:48

100% agree, we have no help with childcare but it would be really unreasonable to expect some older folk who have things like arthritis and who have done a lot of care themselves to do so. Is it easy no, but life never is. DD has a lovely relationship with her grandparents, she knows she is dearly loved, thats the gift they give.

It’s always moaning some woman won’t do something for you, when they say grandparents, they usually mean grandmothers.

IDrinkTeaAllTheTime · 15/04/2026 06:48

I completely agree, OP. The level of selfishness and entitlement around this really blows my mind and makes me feel sorry for the poor grandmothers (let’s be honest, it’s always expected of the women).

Luckily, though, this isn’t something I’ve experienced within my own family or life in general - it seems to be a very mumsnet-specific thing, and I honestly believe half the posts on here are rage bait or for traffic, so maybe it’s not as prevalent as we see on here.

SassiM · 15/04/2026 06:49

I wouldn't have been able to go out to work in the 1980s if my Mum and MIL hadn't looked after my oldest son one day a week each. I think my Mum was more willing and able than my MIL however.
When I had 2 children I worked nights at Retirement Home so I wouldn't have to burden my Mum with childcare. At that time my husband's shifts meant he was at home with them overnight.
I was very lucky both my parents enjoyed the company of grandchildren when they were younger although I think as they got older (secondary school age) they moved 130 miles away!

BlueberrySummerCloud · 15/04/2026 06:49

Smittenkitchen · 15/04/2026 06:47

Fair enough, perhaps there's selection bias at play. I don't tend to open those threads, maybe!

Pretty much no-one I know IRL lives close enough to their DP for this to be an option.

Edited

I dont read them all but they are there I can assure you

Supporting2026 · 15/04/2026 06:49

You clearly have a very very strong feeling about grandmother's (and i assume people in general) not having any obligation to each other to support during challenging times. As wonderful as having kids is, it is a challenging time. I personally see the world differently - I think i do have an obligation to people, and especially to my children, to support them even when they are adults - but in in sensible ways that help them and are manageable for me. For the record, since they were born there has never been a single hour when I have relied on any unpaid childcare except myself and I don't expect it of my limited family - but i have had some limited support in other ways and even when its just someone playing with one kid whilst i help the other it makes a huge difference.

MyOtherProfile · 15/04/2026 06:51

As someone whose grandmother stepped in throughout my childhood when my mum had other things going on, I am really grateful that not everyone would go along with the OP. I don't know where I would be today if my grandmother hadn't had a huge involvement in bringing me up. I would be very happy to do the same if I ever have grandchildren.

TheyGrewUp · 15/04/2026 06:52

I agree with @PlayingDevilsAdvocateisinteresting .

DH and I are mid 60s, still working, a grandchild on the way. Our friends are of similar ages. Most of us had no or emergency childcare but good relationships. Those of us who worked had formal, paid childcare.

What is interesting is that a couple of families are also providing homes for their adult children and young grandchildren in what seems to be a return to extended family living. They have large houses admittedly. Culturally English/UK families.

DH and I will be happy to help occadionally and in emergencies. Bit moot though as DS is on another continent and DD relocating to northern Europe.

user593 · 15/04/2026 06:53

My mother watched my first DC (her first GC) two days a week for a few years whilst I WFH (so she wasn’t on her own with him). She offered, but it became clear to me at a certain point her heart wasn’t in it anymore (she wasn’t a good mother, so I was frankly surprised she wanted to do it in the first place) so I asked her not to do it anymore. When my DB’s first DC was born she point blank refused to provide childcare, and in the circumstances I can understand why he was annoyed but he probably should have discussed it with her before DC was born. When our second DC was born I didn’t ask and she didn’t offer and we made other arrangements.

In my opinion it’s lovely if someone offers but you really shouldn’t bank on it, and I think some people just assume it will happen. In my mother’s case I think she was super excited about her first GC but once the novelty wore off it was boring (she’s isn’t and has never been maternal).

BlueberrySummerCloud · 15/04/2026 06:53

I think its also worth stating that the retirement age for women was 60 in the past, then moved to 65 and currently 67

Its a conundrum
No one wants older people in the workplace, theres no jobs but you cant retire until 67
Oh and you are expected to exhaust yourself looking after GC if you do have any spare time

SandwichesAndGingerBeer · 15/04/2026 06:54

I do agree with a lot of your original sentiment OP, although some of your follow up posts sound like you only want people to post if they agree with you, which is not really how this forum works.

I’m going to risk slightly disagreeing and suggesting some ‘nuance’ between babysitting and childcare. I agree that routine, long standing childcare is a big commitment that definitely impacts ability to enjoy retirement freely. I have seen my own in laws be unable to take holidays for much of the year for example. And I don’t think it’s unreasonable for any grandparent not to want to be tied into this week in, week out.

However I don’t think it’s unreasonable that adult children (whether they be daughters or sons) would expect their parents to occasionally help out with a little babysitting here and there so they can attend a wedding together, go on a date night, go to a school parents evening, cover an occasional day when childcare arrangements have fallen through etc etc.

And, assuming no health issues or other things that would genuinely make it hard for the grandparents to do this, I do think it is unreasonable not to help out occasionally in this way. And I could see that this might affect visits if parents are busy and struggling.

I think you’re very fair to say that it is unreasonable to expect formal childcare from your parents, but it is not entitlement to expect occasional helping hands from family members and equally grandparents are not entitled to relationships with grandchildren where it is the parent putting in all the effort to facilitate and getting no support.

I will steel myself for the response!

And yes yes I know there are ACTUAL babysitters in the world, but sometimes there are reasons this is difficult. My son for example has separation anxiety and will only be left with people be knows well. And in case it’s relevant both sets of grandparents live too far away to provide any of this kind of help.

Barrenfieldoffucks · 15/04/2026 06:55

The argument becomes more nuanced if the grandparent is forthright about not 'owing' childcare, when they happily accepted it themselves. If they bemoan not having a closer relationship with the children when time doesn't allow more visits etc as the kids are in childcare etc.

Equally, if they provided help and care to their parents, the ones who had helped them with childcare...and then use this to apply emotional pressure to their own children to provide care to them.

The other complaint is often that care and help is distributed unequally.

Of course life isn't transactional, but hypocrisy is a killer.

Hamalam · 15/04/2026 06:55

I agree wholeheartedly OP. The poor GM with kids dumped on them when they’re supposed to be enjoying their retirement.

The entitlement you see on mumsnet is incredible. the ‘the GPs have booked a holiday when my baby’s due, who’ll look after the older children’ when you know they’re the sort not to let GPs see the child for 6 weeks cause they’re ‘getting to know each other as a small family unit’, or ‘putting up boundaries’ or some such nonsense.

Then there’s the ‘my mil has my bill’s 3 kids full time and she’s not offered to look after my (as of yet unborn) baby. I’m thinking of going NC with her’.

GlovedhandsCecilia · 15/04/2026 06:56

In our family, we all help each other with whatever workload we have. It is nice to know you can rely on family when you need them. It's nice not to fear aging because you know your family will do what's best for you. It works because we give as much as we receive.

FluffMagnet · 15/04/2026 06:56

I am with you on regular, day-to-day childcare expectations, but would make the following points:

  1. The economy is currently fucked beyond belief, and the massive benefits bill is primarily pensions.
  2. The birthrate is already worryingly low, and increasing the issue above (lack of taxpayers).
  3. Families are therefore stetched beyond belief and often working all hours, and still not getting bills paid.
  4. When I was young (80s/90s) it really was not unusual to see grandparents helping out with childcare, so parents could work, even though it was arguably easier to live off one wage. Might explain some of the expectation of replication this generation.

We are very fortunate that our parents (not just me asking my mum) take our DC for some weeks during the holidays, as the school holidays and our leave allowance simply do not come close to marrying up. They also really enjoy spending time with their grandchildren too, and actively ask to see them. But primarily, they see us struggling and are very keen to ease that burden (as my paternal grandparents - both of them, not such grandma - did for my parents). They have looked after their elderly parents too, and having seen that growing up, I am keen to replicate their model of care going forwards.

Modern life is chaotic woth young children. I can see why parents get frustrated with grandparents wanting to be fully faciliated in having fun only with grandchildren (thus adding to their children's mental load), as this seems almost to mock those already drowning. Be a family and look out for each other. And frankly if you really dislike your child's behaviour and find them entitled, well ... who raised them?

Timble · 15/04/2026 06:57

If I’ve day I have grandchildren I know I won’t look after them regularly so my children can work as I like my job and freedom but I adore my DD’s and will make sure to give them a break and help out because parenting is bloody hard (worth it for many but still so hard). I’d want to se my DD’s flourish and I think you do need love and support from family to do that.

Maray1967 · 15/04/2026 06:58

UraniumFlowerpot · 15/04/2026 04:09

This reads quite black and white, reality is usually more nuanced.

no childcare => no visits, I agree this doesn’t make strict logical sense. But often grandparents express a sense of entitlement to family visits, and days out, may have quite specific ideas of what family time should look like and how children should behave. Those expectations concrete work for the parents, and a sense that instead of helping me with the existing challenges of raising kids you’re actually adding more.

More generally, the attitude around refusing to help is similar to the general growth of individualistic every-(wo)man-for-themselves philosophies. The urge to have children can be very deep and strong. It is natural and normal. In a cost of living crisis I find it cruel to glibly say to people who long for a family but struggle with the financial side “don’t have kids if you can’t support them yourselves”. We were never meant to live these very separate nuclear family lives, and economic changes of the last couple of decades have really crippled a lot of people who have tried hard to do everything right. It makes sense in that situation that people would reach out to their families for help, and that they would feel really quite hurt by a grandparent deciding that their multiple annual holidays and 5 spare bedrooms are more important than helping the parents through the difficult early childhood years and the impossible costs of even modest family housing.

So while I take your point that it’s not good to assume this is all that grandparents are for, and I understand that everyone quite reasonably has their own hopes and plans for their own lives that might not revolve around endless childcare for extended family… I do think you’ve been a bit harsh in some of what you’ve said.

ps I live far enough away from my own parents and from in-laws that I’ll never be asking any of them for any childcare whatsoever, but expect to put in enormous amounts of time, effort and money over the years to facilitate as much relationship as possible. So none of what I’ve said is defensiveness on my side, just trying to add a bit of empathy and nuance.

This is my view. We never expected or ask for childcare as they lived 90 minutes drive away but WE were expected to visit - and to schedule those visits around their social lives with their friends. Weekends with their friends came first. If we invited them to us we were often told that they might be away with X&Y that weekend. The irony is that their main friends would drop them like a hot potato as they always prioritised their DGC.

And - they had one day a week help from a parent the generation before even when one of them was a SAHP.

FlamingoFloss · 15/04/2026 06:59

This is such a thing. DH and I have just been unfriended on SM along with a barrage of vile texts (to him, not me) from DSD and her DM. All
because DSD expected us to take annual leave from our work so that she could go to work. This is the fallout because we said no. Apparently she’s not going to help out when we are old and need help because we won’t do childcare when she wants us to. We do look after DGC and see them regularly (not as often as we would like, granted as we both work FT and have busy lives) but we want to see DGC on our terms and do fun things and not just be their to provide free childcare. We are effectively in a blackmail situation and it is not ok

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 07:00

Helpboat · 15/04/2026 06:08

Yeah no op. You can sound militant and extreme as you wish but ultimately relationships are built on reciprocation and are transactional. When you have a child, it is often a very difficult and vulnerable time. Grandparents are a vital resource during that time and it isn’t wrong to expect assistance from them in your time in need. Equally, if they choose to not be a part of your network or village in your time in need then they shouldn’t expect you to be theirs.

Family relationships are transactional and people who don't provide childcare for grandchildren can't expect their kids to help them in old age??? 😱 Man, that is COLD!

bookmarkymark · 15/04/2026 07:00

Do you not think its one of the reasons we are so successful as a species - family groups where caring for everyone is possible?
(Elderly relatives who can no longer manage included)

youalright · 15/04/2026 07:00

Well said 👏👏👏

Rituelec · 15/04/2026 07:01

Im only 16yrs older than my daughter, its not even an age thing but I think the entitlement thing is awful here at times. There should be no expectations of childcare!

Boomer55 · 15/04/2026 07:01

Yes. I made it clear, from the start, that I was not starting child rearing again. I have my own life.

Emergencies are fine, and I love seeing them all, but I don’t want to start the whole thing again.

Velvian · 15/04/2026 07:01

MyOtherProfile · 15/04/2026 06:51

As someone whose grandmother stepped in throughout my childhood when my mum had other things going on, I am really grateful that not everyone would go along with the OP. I don't know where I would be today if my grandmother hadn't had a huge involvement in bringing me up. I would be very happy to do the same if I ever have grandchildren.

Same for me, my Nan was my rock.