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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
Gettingbysomehow · 15/04/2026 07:01

What a tedious rant. Id love to have some grandchildren to love and spoil. My DS has decided not to have children so thats never going to happen. I'll have to make do with my nephew. My holidays with my grandparents were the happiest days of my life.

TheyGrewUp · 15/04/2026 07:02

SandwichesAndGingerBeer · 15/04/2026 06:54

I do agree with a lot of your original sentiment OP, although some of your follow up posts sound like you only want people to post if they agree with you, which is not really how this forum works.

I’m going to risk slightly disagreeing and suggesting some ‘nuance’ between babysitting and childcare. I agree that routine, long standing childcare is a big commitment that definitely impacts ability to enjoy retirement freely. I have seen my own in laws be unable to take holidays for much of the year for example. And I don’t think it’s unreasonable for any grandparent not to want to be tied into this week in, week out.

However I don’t think it’s unreasonable that adult children (whether they be daughters or sons) would expect their parents to occasionally help out with a little babysitting here and there so they can attend a wedding together, go on a date night, go to a school parents evening, cover an occasional day when childcare arrangements have fallen through etc etc.

And, assuming no health issues or other things that would genuinely make it hard for the grandparents to do this, I do think it is unreasonable not to help out occasionally in this way. And I could see that this might affect visits if parents are busy and struggling.

I think you’re very fair to say that it is unreasonable to expect formal childcare from your parents, but it is not entitlement to expect occasional helping hands from family members and equally grandparents are not entitled to relationships with grandchildren where it is the parent putting in all the effort to facilitate and getting no support.

I will steel myself for the response!

And yes yes I know there are ACTUAL babysitters in the world, but sometimes there are reasons this is difficult. My son for example has separation anxiety and will only be left with people be knows well. And in case it’s relevant both sets of grandparents live too far away to provide any of this kind of help.

Edited

As a soon to be grandparent, I agree w9th every word of this.

Cathandkin · 15/04/2026 07:02

Bringemout · 15/04/2026 06:48

100% agree, we have no help with childcare but it would be really unreasonable to expect some older folk who have things like arthritis and who have done a lot of care themselves to do so. Is it easy no, but life never is. DD has a lovely relationship with her grandparents, she knows she is dearly loved, thats the gift they give.

It’s always moaning some woman won’t do something for you, when they say grandparents, they usually mean grandmothers.

Edited

Absolutely this. Some people are only looking at what suits them, not the bigger picture.

MyOtherProfile · 15/04/2026 07:03

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you. Stop it.

Many of your generation relied on grandparents too. Don't act so superior.

These adult women should be deeply ashamed of themselves and I hope their declining years are as miserable and burdensome as they deserve.

Have you thought of getting help for whatever trauma caused your anger? I hope you are shown kindness in your old age and not the vitriol you're wishing on other women here.

thepariscrimefiles · 15/04/2026 07:04

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 04:08

No, I was referencing an absolute multitude of bratty demanding dictator daughters making disgusting and cruel comments about older women - not just one thread.

I didn't bother to read that particular thread as it was about the 5th "older women are my resource and servants or else" thread I've seen in the last few weeks.

I just wanted to make it clear that the two situations (visiting and unpaid labour) are not comparable, the argument is illogical and the behaviour disgusting. Because it is.

Edited

Obviously, there is no obligation for grandparents (the majority being grandmothers) to provide child care for their grandchildren.

However, some of the threads on here are from posters whose parents have told them that they won't offer any childcare, not even in an emergency, who then complain that their friends, who do provide care to their grandchildren, have a closer relationship with their grandchildren and expect the OP to bend over backwards to spend more time with them at weekends.

There are selfish and entitled parents posting on here but there are also selfish and entitled grandparents (usually grandmothers) who complain that their grandchildren are much closer to the other set of grandparents who do provide childcare and they want that close relationship without putting any effort in.

2children3dogs · 15/04/2026 07:05

OP, your dictator-style language and dismissive responses to other people's opinions makes you very unlikeable.

In a black and white world, I agree with your points. Of course, this isn't reality.

In the same breath, I will add that your adult daughter is not responsible for your care when you grow old or unwell.

Best of luck.

NoisyViewer · 15/04/2026 07:05

Whilst I completely agree with your statement I did feel resentment towards my MIL. My mom before she got terminal cancer looked after my daughter. Loved to do it. In response to this help I spent a lot of time with her, took her places etc as she wouldn’t accept any payment. We had limited funds but everytime we took my mom out for dinner or the odd day out my MIL who made it very clear she wouldn’t be helping was offended and would often say we were leaving her out. Which is ridiculous she literally lived 2 streets away whilst my mom was a 5 minute car journey. She was always round my SIL when we visited meaning we’d have to go there to see her which we did several times a week. No issue but my daughter was not treated the same as her cousins. She was happily greeted and cuddled etc. but my nephew would be asked to perform a dance he’d made or do his show for us. When my daughter would try and get involved MIL would say just hold on darling this is the funny bit. She clearly had a favourite.

when my mom got ill I put my daughter in a private nursery and eventually through cost and care for my mom gave up work. I got pregnant with my second not ideal timing. Just after my son was born my mom became bed ridden and her care needs increased. I asked my MIL if she minded having my daughter for a couple of hours in the school holidays to give her break from seeing her nan dying & that was shot down like I asked her to drink a cup of lukewarm sick. She was to anxious and couldn’t do it. Luckily my SIL called me after her mom complained I’d asked and offered to help. She couldn’t believe her mom wouldn’t help out. SIL worked nights but when she woke would ring me and tell me to drop daughter round so I could go to my mom. I took SIL out and again MIL kicked off about being left out. I had to explain it was a thank you for helping me out.

fast forward 15 years and I now have a MIL very rapidly becoming more vulnerable (copd due to years of smoking & now vaping) and dependent. Her and SIL are estranged and at a family party I’ve had a very interesting conversation with my husbands aunt on how she needs help and would it hurt me (we live 45 minutes away now) to come over in the week and take her shopping. I am not impressed. We have visited my MIL consistently, we see her most weeks, we take her out we’ve never held her lack of help in desperate times against her, I only wanted to protect my daughter from seeing pain. I was taking my new born son with me. She’s probably babysat a handful of times & each time I’ve been made to feel she’s done us a massive favour that we stopped asking. I know her care is going to fall on me and my hubby and as I don’t work I know it’s going to be me, she’s not an enjoyable person. She talks nothing other than depressing things. Talks at you & doesn’t want a response really as she just over talks you when you try & criticises everything you do. So where do people stand on this? Do we do our duty. We didn’t sign up to be carers. There’s also an expectation on kids to care for their aging ill parents. Do I say fuck her when she obviously needs help? Big part wants to but I can’t be this heartless. Aren’t relationships meant to be 2 way street. If we measuring who gets what from whom I’d say MIL relationship is an 80 - 20 on who given and who received. I can appreciate the dread of grandparents being asked to help, as I have this exact same thing now & I have added resentment. Because whilst I don’t think about how she wasn’t there ever, that conversation with her sister surely bought those feelings flooding to the surface and I feel a little angry about it. People choose to have kids I get that, but with the cost of everything, if they had to have all ducks in a row to have them they very well may miss the boat. Money is tight, expectations are higher & a little help from your family shouldn’t be expected but by gosh you’d hope the person who proclaims they love you the most may step in and provide some

KhargIsland · 15/04/2026 07:06

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 04:36

It doesn't, actually, matter of course, since the principle that older women do not exist as a resource for others is irrefutable.

But sure you can try to categorise women who choose not to give away their unpaid labour and irreplaceable time to others.

You won't get any sort of useful answer here of course, not even for such a straw poll, far too many confounding variables.

I think actually it does matter: not in Work sector you describe above, but in the relationship sector.

Can you understand why it would be absolutely galling for a woman who saw granny every week to be told that her mother has no interest in the same type of relationship. She might not be entitled to your free labour, but she is perfectly entitled to infer that you are graceless, selfish and a massive hypocrite. With the topping of ‘don’t be a brat’ the elephant in the room may not be the issue you think it is.

(Live abroad, had no free childcare, but my parents, PIL were absolute troopers in emergencies)

QuintadosMalvados · 15/04/2026 07:07

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 05:09

I think it's just the reality that a lot of men don't play a part in organizing any of it

This is true.
I just don't know why women want to work in the pre-school years UNLESS it's financially essential.

Given that It's pretty clear that a lot of men didn't get the equality memo.
Of course, this may not immediately clear so they can find themselves trapped.

NoisyViewer · 15/04/2026 07:08

thepariscrimefiles · 15/04/2026 07:04

Obviously, there is no obligation for grandparents (the majority being grandmothers) to provide child care for their grandchildren.

However, some of the threads on here are from posters whose parents have told them that they won't offer any childcare, not even in an emergency, who then complain that their friends, who do provide care to their grandchildren, have a closer relationship with their grandchildren and expect the OP to bend over backwards to spend more time with them at weekends.

There are selfish and entitled parents posting on here but there are also selfish and entitled grandparents (usually grandmothers) who complain that their grandchildren are much closer to the other set of grandparents who do provide childcare and they want that close relationship without putting any effort in.

Exactly, if you don’t provide your own 1:1 time with your grandchildren then that’s on you if the relationship suffers. I’m sure the other set of grandparents would love to split the time

Velvian · 15/04/2026 07:09

I'm still close to the nanny that worked for us when my DC were younger. I'm still so grateful to her for being there for me and my children. You can't put a price on (no pun intended) knowing your DC are safe and cared for while you are at work.

I honestly loved her more than my DH at the time. 😅

If grandparents can do some of that for their children/grandchildren, the social bonds will extend well beyond the preschool years.

thepariscrimefiles · 15/04/2026 07:09

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 04:08

No, I was referencing an absolute multitude of bratty demanding dictator daughters making disgusting and cruel comments about older women - not just one thread.

I didn't bother to read that particular thread as it was about the 5th "older women are my resource and servants or else" thread I've seen in the last few weeks.

I just wanted to make it clear that the two situations (visiting and unpaid labour) are not comparable, the argument is illogical and the behaviour disgusting. Because it is.

Edited

Wouldn't referring to other women as 'bratty demanding dictator daughters' fall into the category of disgusting and cruel comments about younger women?

Your language is extreme and unhelpful.

Octavia64 · 15/04/2026 07:09

TiredDinosaur · 15/04/2026 04:27

All these grandparents refusing to help, I'm interested to know if you worked during raising your own kids or if you were a housewife that stayed home ?

I’m refusing to help.

i worked while raising my kids. PIL on one side offered no childcare (to be fair my SIl had seven kids and she did 5 days a week with at least three of them until she was 80. The rest of the family were horrified at how SIL simply used her.)

my mum and dad looked after them for a week once a year when I was teaching and their school hadn’t finished.

I am also severely disabled, can’t walk far and use a wheelchair. Nobody in their right mind would consider me capable of looking after a child of any age.

Lifestooshort71 · 15/04/2026 07:10

OP, are you able to turn on voting or has that ship sailed? It would be interesting to see the result.

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 07:10

BlueberrySummerCloud · 15/04/2026 06:41

Absolutely this but how many men actually step up and do their share. REAL share of childcare and domestic tasks.
I had a friend who begged a favour, she had DC at 2 different schools ( temporarily) would my DP pick them up on his way past their house and drop them off at school?
Yes fine
First day he arrived and the DH was sitting at the table with coffee and a full english!

Now this is where it gets sticky
Are these relationships working only because the men are verbally abusive if the woman asks for help aka men doing their share?
Ive seen it on here many times
Its a form of coercion and control
No wonder women dont want relationships and children

Sorry - I'm not understanding the significance in this story of the DH having coffee and a cooked breakfast?

NoisyViewer · 15/04/2026 07:11

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 03:18

I agree with everything you've said. I've always made it clear to my son if he has children I will not be raising them or taking care of them all the time. I want to go on days out with them and just have fun, I've done my child- raising

Edited

That’s fine and dandy, but if the DIL parents do provide this help, then it’s logical they’d see them more & may even visit them more than you wven if they aren’t babysitting. 1 because the kids will find it more enjoyable & comfortable & 2 you often passing ships in this time between drop off and pick ups you may only see them for a few minutes a day so you’ll want to show your appreciation and actually spend time with them

rainingsnoring · 15/04/2026 07:12

You sound very angry @Youlittlenightmare. Are you projecting here?

There are selfish and entitled parents. There are selfish and entitled grandparents. Relationships are a two way street.

ronnyysbonnet · 15/04/2026 07:12

Who are these feckless and lazy parents not looking after their own children? I can't imagine it but they must exist. We are on the other end of the spectrum, both sets of GP live abroad, dh and I both working, we muddled through, it's been tough and tiring and also very rewarding, we have an amazing bond with our dc.

I can't imagine leaving my dc with Gp for days or weekends on end. I also much preferred a professional nursery setting to all day at home with GP as they learn more and make friends.

GP are there to have a lovely relationship with the dc and perhaps occasionally babysit if it works for everyone.

YANBU OP.

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 07:13

OP is saying that it's really awful to blackmail grandparents with the threat of not seeing their grandchildren if they don't provide regular childcare.

Surely that's a completely reasonable statement.

I agree with you, OP. I think that would be a truly terrible thing to do and it would literally never occur to me.

MyLuckyHelper · 15/04/2026 07:13

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 03:32

I wonder what would happen to society if grandmothers collectively said no ? The government policies themselves, society itself seems to rely on them, which is even worse than the individual daughters doing it.

I don’t have any friends or colleagues who use grandparents for childcare now. As in not permanent regular childcare for working purposes. Most parents of my social circle were still employed when their grandchildren came along, so I’d be surprised if it’s as much of an issue now than it was a couple of decades ago.

that said, I do completely agree that no one should be blackmailed into anything they don’t want to do. But I’d have thought that was really standard thinking, it’s a shame it’s not.

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:14

Interesting. My parents (yes including my mother) farmed me off to my grandparents every chance they got - how does that sit with your forceful opinions?

You arent wrong that there should not be any pressure to care for grand kids. However, as a result of the above I DID end up being much closer to my nan (mum's mum) than my grandma (dad's mum). That was purely due to amount of time spent with her as a child, it wasnt some evil deliberate ploy by us to piss off my other grandma. The fact is- if you spend loads of time with someone you WILL be closer to them - it's just a natural consequence of circumstances. This holds true for friendships and all relationships in life.

Stop acting like not being close to your grandparents is a punishment for them not caring for you. I cared for my nan in her later life and not my grandma for this exact reason - through her caring for me as a kid we developed a bond. I couldn't give a toss if you think that was unfair to my other grandma, I didnt have an endless supply of time or energy to care for both so naturally I supported the one I was closest to.

DryIce · 15/04/2026 07:15

Wow this topic is popular this week. OP doesn't really seem up for a discussion so not sure what the point of this is.

Seems like a straw man anyway, no one I know relies on regular help from grandparents. OP seems outraged at the very temerity of being asked - which I think is where the relevance of the help the GP themselves received. Like the poor PP on the last thread who was dismissed as an entitled brat for asking her mum for help, receiving none and being disappointed when she didn't even an get some assistance during an emergency hospital visit. Even asking and hoping we're considered absolutely entitled grabby behaviour despite actually receiving no help.

IIf you can't manage visits, tell them and do what you can. Or don't. Like a normal person.

Well, quite OP. I'd say the same for GPs - if you can't manage care, do what you can. Or don't. Like a normal person

Octavia64 · 15/04/2026 07:15

KimberleyClark · 15/04/2026 05:54

Humans are unusual in that women live for decades after their reproductive years. From an evolutionary perspective, that’s not random. One explanation is that older women increased the survival chances of their grandchildren by helping with childcare, food gathering, and general support. In that sense, their role didn’t end with their own children - it shifted.

Women living for decades after menopause is a relatively modern phenomenon though. Life expectancy used to be much lower.

Yes, and no.

life expectancy was much lower because so many infants died before the age of 5.
those people who survived to adulthood actually lived a reasonable length of life.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 15/04/2026 07:15

Fundamentally, I agree with you OP. No grandparent should feel obliged to do childcare, and no parent should feel entitled to childcare help from their own parents - if you have kids, then they are your responsibility, nobody else's. And of course, the fact that this expectation falls primarily on grandmothers rather than grandfathers is pure misogyny.

The reality is more complicated than that though. Relationships typically involve some give and take. If you could help a loved one but choose not to, then that is entirely your prerogative, but that choice sends a message about your priorities that may have potential consequences for the relationship.

Looking after elderly parents is also labour. I'm in the midst of caring responsibilities right now, and I would not say that I am choosing to do it because I enjoy it. Rather, I am choosing to do it because I value the relationship and because I believe that solid relationships involve doing what you can to help those that you love. Even when you don't feel like it sometimes.

My dd is only 20 right now, and I don't know when she is going to have dc but it's likely that I'll still be working FT when she does, so I can't imagine that I'll be available for regular childcare when they're little in any case. But I will absolutely do whatever I can to help, because I love her and want to do what I can to support her. And so will my DH.

sorrynotathome · 15/04/2026 07:16

OneNewLeader · 15/04/2026 05:34

I don’t know a single person who had their parents look after their children on a regular basis.

That’s interesting! Are the people you know all wealthy (SAHPs or can afford professional childcare), young (parents all still working FT), older (parents too old to look after children) or am I missing something?

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