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AIBU?

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Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
Helpboat · 15/04/2026 06:18

thefloorislavayes · 15/04/2026 05:32

Humans are what anthropologists call cooperative breeders. Unlike most species, our children are dependent for an unusually long time, and historically mothers didn’t raise them in isolation. Survival often depended on support from other women, especially grandmothers. There’s evidence from multiple historical populations that the presence of a maternal grandmother increased a child’s chances of survival.

It’s been suggested that women evolved to experience menopause partly so that older women could shift their focus from having more children to supporting the next generation. This is often explained through the Grandmother hypothesis.

Humans are unusual in that women live for decades after their reproductive years. From an evolutionary perspective, that’s not random. One explanation is that older women increased the survival chances of their grandchildren by helping with childcare, food gathering, and general support. In that sense, their role didn’t end with their own children - it shifted.

So across most of human history, raising children wasn’t an isolated task. It relied on a wider network, especially other women in the family. That’s part of why humans have been able to successfully raise such dependent offspring.

So the idea that parenting is, or should be, a completely self-contained, individual responsibility is actually very modern. For most of human history, it wasn’t optional - it was how families functioned.

That doesn’t mean any individual grandmother today is obligated to provide childcare. Autonomy still matters. But it does mean that expecting some level of support, or feeling the impact when that support isn’t there, isn’t “entitlement” or a “logical failure.” It’s a reflection of how human family systems have always worked.

Trying to separate family relationships from practical support as if they’ve never been connected ignores both biology and history. These things have always been intertwined - not as a transaction, but as part of being a functioning family unit

Good luck with explaining that to the militant grandmas

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 06:18

I'm not sure what kind of support I'll need from my son when I get older ? Don't people get home care nurses when necessary ?

PlayingDevilsAdvocateisinteresting · 15/04/2026 06:20

@UraniumFlowerpot, Part of your response to the OP was:

"But often grandparents express a sense of entitlement to family visits, and days out, may have quite specific ideas of what family time should look like and how children should behave. Those expectations concrete work for the parents, and a sense that instead of helping me with the existing challenges of raising kids you’re actually adding more."

I just want to ask you how often is often?

I am an OAP, and a grandparent, so I have been around for quite a few years. I am not telling you that because I claim to be an expert at either being a parent, or a grandparent, I am just pointing out that unless I was a hermit, which I wasn't, I can think of only one grandparent - who happened to be the grandmother, not the grandfather - who actually behaved anywhere close to your description.

Of course, if we make our assumptions based on 'information' garnered on websites, like Mumsnet (I am not dissing Mumsnet, I think it is a brilliant resource, as well as a way to relax at the end of the day, after I have wordled, and before picking up my latest novel), or the DM etc. rather than our real life observations and experiences, then I believe that the truth will probably be far removed from the stories in many publications.

I am not accusing you, Flowerpot, of only getting your information from such places as the ones I mentioned above, but I would find it interesting to know whether you are actually exaggerating about how often you are personally aware of such behaviour by many grandparents, or if you could give some general background - obviously not any that in any likelood could lead back to you - that can help explain why our experiences may be so different?

Pocahontasandme · 15/04/2026 06:21

You tell people to stop being grabby entitled, op, well maybe you should stop being puffed up and self righteous?
When a person has a child they are then obliged for life to that child. All going well the child one day matures and the roles are swapped and the child then looks after the parents. Being in a family is reciprocal, we’re all meant to look after each other.

These days it’s almost impossible for young parents to exist without both parents getting a job, it’s not a system I like but it’s what we have. This means that if possible the family should pitch in and help when they can. It’s not on to expect visits from overworked parents who have NO TIME while simultaneously refusing to pitch in.

I’ve no skin in this fight btw. My parents live far away from me so have never babysat. I’m conscious that this will be problematic one day as they’ll be elderly and require my help. I was young when I emigrated , I regret it now

SassyButClassy · 15/04/2026 06:21

I understand your view, OP, not in disagreement about it being wrong to hold access to GC ransom as revenge for declining childcare. I've never done that, wouldn't dream of doing it and think it's bad form.

But, why do people keep blaming men?

If a woman is asking their mother for childcare, why do so many assume the man is doing nothing? My DH worked longer hours than I did and we still had childcare assistance. He worked 10+ hours and I worked only during school hours and term time.

As for the childcare assistance, this was provided by MIL and FIL.

Note: and FIL.

So, it's tiresome to see, over and over, "What about the man?"

Unless I'm missing something, what about him?? He's working just like the woman! Perhaps more? Grandfathers provide care, too.

The circular, irrelevant comment about men not doing anything is boring.

PollyBell · 15/04/2026 06:21

Helpboat · 15/04/2026 06:10

I think you need exposure to real life and other cultures. Plenty of care in both directions when it comes to multi generational relationships.

And in this wonderful amazing culture how much freedom do women have in these cultures or does caring and running a house keep women tied together generation after generation and their sole purpose for living is caring for others?

Credittocress · 15/04/2026 06:24

I think very few women on here use contact as a lever for childcare. What they do say repeatedly is that family time is limited, often both parents are working full time, that gives 8 days a month free time, that needs to be spread between clubs, parents, in-laws, friends and classmates parties and things.

If you offer up childcare-fortnightly, weekly or whatever you will regularly see the grandchildren. If you don’t that’s fine, but you are then limited to those precious weekend days when everything else has to fit in too- so you are likely to see them less.

You can’t complain at a family that your mate gets to see the grandchildren every other week if they are seeing them without the parents present whilst the parents are at work.

No one is entitled to childcare. But equally it is not applying a lever to then say we will see you less if you only want to see us when we are all together, because there is only so much of that time available.

Velvian · 15/04/2026 06:25

I think it is completely reasonable not to want to spend 1 of 2 days off per week (for example) with someone so hostile @Youlittlenightmare .

You expect rather a lot from women of the younger generation. What's more, you seem to actually hate them.

I think on the extended family visits, lockdown broke the routine for working parents.

Helpboat · 15/04/2026 06:26

PollyBell · 15/04/2026 06:21

And in this wonderful amazing culture how much freedom do women have in these cultures or does caring and running a house keep women tied together generation after generation and their sole purpose for living is caring for others?

Oh Polly why do you always get your back up on threads where other cultures are mentioned? Are you ok? Has someone from another culture broken your heart?

Believe it or not but women from other cultures are not all oppressed patiently waiting for you to emancipate them, dear polly.

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 06:33

minipie · 15/04/2026 05:11

I agree grandparents don’t owe childcare.

However your post suggests that there is no link between whether grandparents offer childcare or general support, and whether they get visits. You set it out as if they are entirely separate decisions. I don’t agree.

If my parent makes it clear that they don’t want to spend any of their retirement time helping me with my kids - even if I am on my knees with non sleeping kids and a demanding job while they are healthy with very few demands on their time - then that is inevitably going to affect how I feel about them and how much I feel like going to see them. I am less likely to feel close to my parent and want to see them lots if they put themselves first during my difficult times, I don’t think that’s exactly surprising.

Moreover, the kids are far more likely to enjoy seeing a grandparent who they see regularly, who has toys at their house, who knows their routines and what food and stories and songs they like, whose home is a second home to them, than a grandparent who only sees them on visits and has very little experience of taking care of them. This will also affect how keen I am as a parent to visit.

This isn’t saying “no childcare so no visits” in a tit for tat way. It’s just an inevitable consequence. If you choose to do other things with your free time, that is entirely your prerogative, but you must expect that that you will have a different sort of relationship with your adult kids and grandkids than a grandparent who chooses to spend their time with their grandkids. You can’t expect it not to affect how keen everyone is to visit you.

I disagree with this. None of my four grandparents had any part in raising us, but we saw them regularly. I don't think my parents would ever have made any connection between them not doing childcare and fewer visits. Grandparents doing childcare just wasn't a thing in my family.

QuintadosMalvados · 15/04/2026 06:36

I agree with you.
I'll try to add something a bit interesting on the subject.
It is true that women worked after children, however, not until they got to school age.
This never seems to be mentioned.

Forty or so years ago, the grandmother was nowhere near retirement herself.

Yes even in 'respectable' families, a grandmother would only be 50-something and still working herself!

It always shocks me that at the start of Reginald Perrin he's only 47.

Yet his daughter has two toddlers.

And he is very much middle class.

Bluegreenbird · 15/04/2026 06:36

I once read an article from a funeral celebrant who said it was interesting that eulogies for women were so often nearly all about what they had done for others. Whereas the men got more content about their own achievements. Maybe that will change as the older people are from different generations where women worked and didn’t only provide labour for their families.

Anyway I’m on the ‘it’s more nuanced’ side. Most loving and functional families surely support each other and make effort on all sides. I’d love to help with my grandchildren if I ever get any and am not too old but as I was mid 30s when I had them and the will be at least that I will be 70+ and it might not be easy. My mum was 41 when she got her first!

FriedFalafels · 15/04/2026 06:36

The talk of a village has existed for generations. Families have either had this for generations or haven’t.

I spend time with my DD as a family and independent. Those independent times create deeper bonds and have a completely different dynamic.

It’s the same for grandparents. Seeing grandkids when with parents create a different bond than solo. I don’t want our grandparents to spend time with our DD for childcare, I want them to build the bond I see other families have that do this.

I will be breaking this generational lack at my level as I have seen how positive it can be for all. I want a close bond with my future grandchildren and I want to support my DD in the way she needs help

TheyGrewUp · 15/04/2026 06:37

KimberleyClark · 15/04/2026 05:54

Humans are unusual in that women live for decades after their reproductive years. From an evolutionary perspective, that’s not random. One explanation is that older women increased the survival chances of their grandchildren by helping with childcare, food gathering, and general support. In that sense, their role didn’t end with their own children - it shifted.

Women living for decades after menopause is a relatively modern phenomenon though. Life expectancy used to be much lower.

Actually I think it was a bit all or nothing. Some women died young, often childbirth associated, many survived and if so lived into their 70s/80s. I was surpriswd when I did my family tree recently (and DH's) and parts got back to the 1400s and 1500s.

Sartre · 15/04/2026 06:37

Oh stop. We’ve had THREE threads on AIBU on this exact topic in the past two weeks. I think it’s someone on the wind up personally.

SwatTheTwit · 15/04/2026 06:38

KimberleyClark · 15/04/2026 06:09

So simply having brought up your own children isn’t enough for those children to provide support in your old age then?

I would say “no” because it was the parents choice to have children; you didn’t choose to be born.

N27 · 15/04/2026 06:39

I don’t think it should be a transactional thing and there are lots of nuances however here is my opinion.

Your child is your child regardless of age. If you’ve been through parenting you know how hard it is and how fragile it can make you. Why would you want to watch your child go through that alone if you had the capability to make it a little easier?

BlueberrySummerCloud · 15/04/2026 06:41

Clonakilla · 15/04/2026 03:40

The individual daughter? It’s surely both parents who are responsible for childcare and therefore both parents who are unreasonable to expect it of their parents?

There’s no point being outraged at expectations that older women provide free care whilst simultaneously assuming it’s the younger woman’s responsibility to provide childcare and her failing when she expects it of others.

Absolutely this but how many men actually step up and do their share. REAL share of childcare and domestic tasks.
I had a friend who begged a favour, she had DC at 2 different schools ( temporarily) would my DP pick them up on his way past their house and drop them off at school?
Yes fine
First day he arrived and the DH was sitting at the table with coffee and a full english!

Now this is where it gets sticky
Are these relationships working only because the men are verbally abusive if the woman asks for help aka men doing their share?
Ive seen it on here many times
Its a form of coercion and control
No wonder women dont want relationships and children

Smittenkitchen · 15/04/2026 06:42

I can't say that I have seen this attitude much, but if you have and are referring to specific threads, I suppose it must. I have only really seen people considering limiting visits/contact when their in-laws or DP are behaving extremely unreasonably.

It's surely two sides of the same selfish coin, the issue is when either GPs or adult DC are only open to contact when it entirely serves and is convenient for them and don't consider what works for the other party. Issues with disagreements about how much childcare GPs provide are now so much more likely because people are struggling amid the cost of living crisis and both partners are often needing to work in most cases.

Adult children being upset about their DP not being willing to provide childcare perhaps sometimes comes from a sense of entitlement but often comes from a sense of desperation about how on earth is the family going to manage logistically or financially if that's not an option. Of course GP can always say no, ideally making it clear what they are and aren't willing to do and not going back on it at short notice.

KimberleyClark · 15/04/2026 06:43

SwatTheTwit · 15/04/2026 06:38

I would say “no” because it was the parents choice to have children; you didn’t choose to be born.

That’s true, but don’t most people who have a good relationship with their parents want at least to make sure they’re ok?

GreenChameleon · 15/04/2026 06:44

I agree that grandmothers do not owe their children childcare. But I do think that in most cases, they will see very little of their grandchildren because the GC's parents will have extremely full lives. It's unreasonable to think that someone who is in their thirties or forties, with children, a job to hold down, a house to run, a relationship, friends you'd like to see, will have time to visit their parents more often than once a fortnight. This will negatively impact the relationship with their grandchildren because they don't see much of them. So, if you don't want to do childcare, don't come whining that you don't see enough of your GCs!

BlueberrySummerCloud · 15/04/2026 06:45

Ive seen this attitude an awful lot along with gimme all your money, its family money, you are selfish etc
@Smittenkitchen

CherryRipe1 · 15/04/2026 06:46

Yes this has happened in my family, not for me and my DD and GS, but my partner's dil is dreadfully entitled. Her mum is manipulated into constant childcare and secretly moans to us that it's all far too much. The rest of the childcare falls to my partners ex who is treated very badly. She has to drive an hour to provide care then is gossiped about and sniped at. Example; She made lovely organic vegan packed lunches for days out with the grandchild & that's wrong, was told in future dil would provide food and gets one white bread cheese sandwich when she doesn't even eat everyday cheese being vegan. Sil is weak and henpecked & won't say diddly.

Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim · 15/04/2026 06:47

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 06:18

I'm not sure what kind of support I'll need from my son when I get older ? Don't people get home care nurses when necessary ?

They certainly do but there is a period before that where the elderly can live independently but struggle with certain tasks.

Cutting the grass and hedges.
Deep cleaning
Changing light bulbs
Getting things in and out of the loft hatch
Assembling furniture
Moving heavy objects
Painting and decorating
Lifts to appointments

They can of course pay for someone to do all those things (if they have the finances), just as someone can pay for childcare.
I personally think it’s sad that our culture has evolved to become so isolated and unwilling to be part of a larger, supportive family unit.

Smittenkitchen · 15/04/2026 06:47

BlueberrySummerCloud · 15/04/2026 06:45

Ive seen this attitude an awful lot along with gimme all your money, its family money, you are selfish etc
@Smittenkitchen

Fair enough, perhaps there's selection bias at play. I don't tend to open those threads, maybe!

Pretty much no-one I know IRL lives close enough to their DP for this to be an option.

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