To think there are more adult children left behind like this?

[Dappy777]

My middle-aged relative lives with his widowed mother. He sleeps in his childhood bedroom, doesn't work and has never had a proper job. He pays no NI and won't get a state pension. We're pretty sure he has an avoidant personality disorder (he ticks all the boxes), but he won't see anyone. If his mother has to go into a care home, the house will be sold and he'll be homeless.

A new lady has started at work whose brother is almost exactly the same. Last week we were discussing them when another colleague said she knows two adult children like this – one male, one female, both in their 40s, neither working nor claiming, reclusive, and living with ageing parents.

She added that she has a friend who works in social care and who says you'd be surprised how many are out there – adult children living at home, struggling with undiagnosed problems (anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, poor social skills), who don't work or socialise, hide away until their parents die, and then have no idea how to cope.

Do you think it is more common? If it is, why?

I was thinking of that. There is for socialising.

There's lonely girls club but it's based in London

https://www.llgc.co.uk/

There's a couple of men's socialising things like Men's Sheds dotted about the country

https://menssheds.org.uk/

And this was on the radio the other day which is literally someone sits at a chair in a pub at an allotted time and you can sit and chat

https://emptychairs.org.uk/about/

I think for some early intervention is key as when you get to 40 plus it’s harder to turn things around and live more independently. You’re settled in your ways.

People are mentioning learning disabilities. I think many parents with such children realise their children will live with them but you have adults who don’t have such issues, have jobs and friends but don’t move out.

I have a cousin who is almost 50 and he lives with his parents. He’s always been in good employment and pays his way. I think for him it’s an anxiety issue and maybe he could have moved out had it been addressed earlier.

It is hard to do as I’ve no idea if his parents tried to get him help earlier and if he resisted. I suppose there’s the harsher method of telling them they need to move out but it might not help if it’s due to mental health illness and then they end up in a worse situation.

Yes, I have. I still think it’s down to the parent’s. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I think that sometimes it is down to the parents, and sometimes it isn't. You'd have to be very hard to make your child move out if they would obviously have problems being independent.

However, the other side of the equation reminds me of a woman in my relative's street who was widowed and lived with her adult daughter - a poor, downtrodden soul whom she bullied relentlessly. Then, when the daughter was in her 50s, a man appeared on the scene whom she was obviously dating. Well, her selfish mother soon put a stop to that. He was given his marching orders. The mother obviously didn't want to be alone so she ruined her daughter's life in order to have company. Dreadful woman.

I see what you are saying, but what happens to those who don't even have siblings. Some people are just genuinely short of connections (through no fault of their own). There are only so many opportunities to pad your life out to avoid ending up on your own. You see it a lot on here - people saying 'focus your own 'little family'', cut out anyone who wants to socialise etc.

But I definitely agree that your sibling's situation is worrying and that he is going to face some big challenges when your parents pass away.

But it's not a black and white issue. Siblings are not the only source of support and companionship. I'm not sure I agree with your point about lack of opportunities to make connections. People go to school, uni, work, hobbies, neighbours, community groups, social opportunities, meeting friends through friends, in-laws and children if applicable. The list is endless

I really don't know anyone that just relies on their sibling as their sole source of support etc and decides that because they have siblings they don't have a need to make further connections. Its a very unhealthy way to live, not having any life out with each other. Further more it would be grossly unfair to make your sibling entirely responsible for being your sole source of support and companionship. Of course good relationships are beneficial but if you have no other relationships outwith your sibling, it's a massive burden to place on them. They have a right to their own life too.

I initially was wondering if you are one of my cousins but then realised this is probably very common (unfortunately). I miss my Great Uncle G.

Of course, yes I agree - there are opportunities to make connections in lots of places. The Mumsnet narrative that you must keep to your own 'little family' isn't actually one I particularly recognise in 'real life', thankfully. But for some people, it must be a genuine thing.

I think the reason I picked up on what you said: 'What happens if one sibling dies, who then do they turn to?' was that it assumed that those people also have no other connections. I maybe haven't read the whole thread in detail, but I couldn't really see why that would be assumed. I know a lovely lady - she is single and hasn't had children (even though she would have liked to). She spends a lot of time with her sister, but she also has a lot of friends too (and I am pleased to be one of them). 😊

This thread reminded me of a work colleague i had in my early twenties. She was about 40 at the time, had older siblings who both lived abroad and she lived at home. She was extremely controlled by her mother. I remember my car was at the garage and I had to ring her for a lift (she knew I might be calling). Her mother answered the phone and asked who was calling.
She mentioned having to ask her parents permission to do things (even to the point if she could leave every evening for a hobby) and we gently began to question this for her. Next thing she left work.
A few years later I met her when she was out walking with her mother. She mentioned that she had been invited to a wedding in Australia and I was saying oh how exciting etc. Her mother was standing behind her and I saw her mother shake her head slowly as my ex colleague spoke about going- i knew immediately she wouldn't be let go.
She's probably in her seventies now.

Yes I fully agree this little family narrative doesn't seem to be in real life. Most people (myself included) are desperate for social time away from our kids or meeting other people with kids!

And I had perhaps picked up on a post here which it appeared that two siblings lived together, isolated from everyone else. Of course not everyone is like that as you said and your friend. Being single certainly doesn't mean you're lonely.

I agree with a PP who said intergenerational living is often given as the solution but this often doesn't work in real life. From what I've seen of it, it usually translates into people of all generations (usually women but not always) being made into dogsbodies and expected to serve everyone with pretty much no desires or needs of their own (in some cases, a final child is had with that being their specific intended purpose, especially if the child turns out to be a girl)... and more recently, to bring in an income as well.

But you can be single and not have children and live apart from your parents. It isn't the binary choice of 'single and living at home' or 'married and with own home'. Lots of single people leave home and live away from their immediate support network. What I think we're talking about on this thread are those people who never leave home and who subsequently lack the skills to manage their own household, for whatever reason. We've been exploring the reason behind these people's decision not to leave home and simply 'being single' isn't a reason.

Yes the thread is about those that are at home and heavily supported by parents and would struggle to function on own when parents die.
If their parent died tomorrow would they be able to shop, cook, pay bills, deal with official paperwork etc.

This reminds me of my parents, I posted about my brother up thread who still lives with them and is very isolated. When I started my first job at 18 I mentioned to a colleague that I’d like to dye my hair but my parents wouldn’t allow it, I remember how horrified they were that my parents controlled me to such an extent, I had to get their permission to go out with friends or go on holiday and they’d often pressure me to cancel at the last minute and let people down. They also encouraged me to spend everything I earned on clothes and other stuff so I’d have no money saved up. I only managed to leave home because I arranged it in secret and told them after I’d paid the deposit, I remember being terrified to tell them. When I went to my new flat my dad offered to pay off the rent if I would come home, he never offered to help with the rent if I stayed though! I think in my parents case they’re incredibly controlling but also have zero appetite for risk, and if their children are out of their sight something bad might happen to them.

Although she eventually moved out to get married (age 28) my sister was content to remain with my parents after she had an unplanned child, There were advantages on both sides as someone had to look after the baby and someone had to bring in the income. My mother looked after the child and my sister returned to work.

I couldnt get away from my parents house quickly enough. I was 22 before I left (I was studying and therefore pretty skint until then) but back in the 1960s it was still unusual for a young woman to live alone. I did my own laundry and ironing from age 14 so thre was no particular advantage for me to live in the parental home.

To be honest, I don't think even she knows.
She likes to meet up with old friends, mostly from her school days and a couple from university, and they all report that she's full of the joys of life. She asks "all the right questions" and is happy to chat, but bats away any questions that dig into her situation. Unfortunately, she hardly sees friends, as a lot of the ones she did have, have (not unreasonably) drifted away, and there's perhaps 3 that she sees perhaps every 2-3 years.

Those of us who know her, suspect she's Autistic, but undiagnosed. And I'm not sure she would think of herself that way.
Like you say, she got through school, and seemed to enjoy it, because it was structured and rule-driven. The steps were clear. And she succeeded all the way though.

I suspect, socially, she struggled with the world of adult work. Much less being told what to do, perhaps it wasn't always clear what was expected of her, and the social communication was beyond her.

I also think a lot of the fault sits at her parents feet. When she quit her job, they should have pushed her onto the next thing. After all, they had a say, as she's sleeping in their house and eating their food. They've just let her opt out of life. No way on earth my parents would have let me do that.

As far as I know, she claims zero benefits. She lives off mum and dad and their pensions.

I think the high rents and high cost of living has a lot to do with this, I often see comments on Mumsnet about not lining the pockets of landlords. Save a deposit and then cost of living keeps going up, and you really need 2 incomes to live comfortably.
Years ago I used to see bedsits for rent at a reasonable price and women/girls getting council houses if they were pregnant without a partner.
The huge costs probably put people off, and I couldn’t blame them.

I think that might be true for people in their 20s but if you're in your late 30s and 40s then I don't know how much it can be used then if you've had 20 years plus to save for a deposit.

On a seperate note, I think it was me that spoke about this romantic and idealised idea of multi-generation living and everyone living all harmoniously together and helping each other out. The thing is this is all just nostalgia and the reality was very different.

People kept seeing its how we used to live as if its something we should go back to. People didn't live like this because they wanted to. For many poverty and house shortages forced people together. And it wasn't like downtown Abbey, it was multi generations living in cramped conditions. Even today the average house wouldn't be fit for multiple generations to all live together.

People also forget there was also high levels of domestic abuse and other types of abused that went on because it kept within the family. It forced elder care, childcare and disabled care into the household where it would normally be one or two woman carrying out these tasks. Burnout was incredibly high because women were doing these jobs 24/7 with no time off and no escape or way out.

There was no NHS pre 1948, limited labour protections and no pensions in the modern sense so families had to absord everything, not because they wanted to or "it was how it was meant to be". The things we recognised now such as carer burnout, chronic stress environments and co-dependecy tensions were all very real then. People didn't have a name for it though because it was very normalised behaviours.

I see the same burnout and stress in families who live in these environments now through my work. It amazes me that people have this romantic idea of multi generation living solving everything when people only did it because of the poor circumstances of the past. I'm not saying things are perfect now by any stretch but thinking that the nuclear family can replace the idea and do all the work of a supportive network of community isn't something I aspire to.

And people say it replaces loneliness but I'd argue otherwise. Certainly the woman carrying out the caregivers roles are quite isolated as they don't have the time or the energy to seek out friendships etc. And I've told the story of my sibling and others have too, who just end up more isolated as they head into their 40s as they've become left behind and unable to relate to their peers. I see it with my sibling where its some strange form of institutionlising and they've spent so long at home they almost regress and lose skills in how to be responsible and socialise.

I have enormous empathy for individuals who are not able to live independently and still live at home though. That's a completely different situation and I'm aware of how little support and services there are for support.

A lot of people like this are later in life babies I find. Possibly due to increased risk of autism? I also think they have less connections early on and it puts them at a disadvantage. I mean think about it-no siblings close in age to play with, or cousins or even the kids of their parents friends-they'd all be 10+ years older. They go to school painfully shy as they never got that early interaction. Then they just never really catch up socially. That's my theory anyway.

I'm not saying things are perfect now by any stretch but thinking that the nuclear family can replace the idea and do all the work of a supportive network of community isn't something I aspire to.

I think this is really crucial - communities. That's what we're missing these days, despite being more connected than ever. I noticed a couple of posters earlier who said we don't need to socialise any more because we have the internet, but I don't agree at all. Online communities serve a purpose for sure, perhaps if you need support with something very specific or private, but there really is no substitute for real world supportive communities and connections.

Religious communities used to be a core provision for this and they still often are, but obviously not as much as they used to be, and I think something has been lost in the fact they've not really been fully replaced by some other form of cohesive and supportive community.

Even for introverted people, community has so much benefit, maybe even more so. And while obviously introversion is real and not unusual or in any way a bad thing, I do think there's something going on whereby relying too much on online interaction has led some people to have stunted social skills but they think it's introversion. But that's perhaps another issue. As we've established, these people who just never launch long predate the Internet.

Quite. It's a theory that has no basis in evidence in terms of a socialisation and the parents age.

Cousins and siblings are not the only form of socialisation a child has 🙄. Parents meet other parents through baby groups, play groups, toddler groups, nursery and other activities. Certainly all my parent friends are a wide range and our children socialise with each other. And in previous generations, people knew their neighbours and other communities and kids played in the street. And if people have their kids later they might have had their kids together.

The autism thing might have some basis I believe in the male factor but people of any age can have kids with autism and genetics play a large part.

I get sick of this narrative played on here of older mums the shaming and blaming that goes on. They are now being told according to some made up theory that has no evidence whatsoever attached to it that their kids will start school scared and disadvantaged.

It’s always existed. My mom had a cousin that ‘had a nervous breakdown’ and lived with her parents for years. When her brother divorced he moved in too and his son as well. When the father died the male cousin and his son abused the female cousin and the mom. When the mom died the female cousin moved into subsidized housing and the male cousin had to go into a nursing home and alcohol rehab centers. He finally died there, no idea where his son is now.

My youngest sibling was being groomed by our parents to stay at home and look after them - apparently a tradition in their home village. I had already escaped to the big city and encouraged my youngest s to live with me, experience life and take up study at uni. They now have a good job and lovely family. My DP died years before they would have reached retirement and needed a live-in helper.

Yes if you have neighbours and the kid plays out with neighbourhood kids then it's much less of a problem. Also if mum goes to lots of baby groups. But not everyone lives in a village or has close neighbours or their mum socialises with other mums in baby groups.

You're telling me a child that never meets another child until age 3 or 4 is NOT disadvantaged in any way? If this doesn't apply to your child then there's no need to get offended is there.

An old school friend is like this. I’m pretty sure she’s undiagnosed autistic though.