Now that America are the baddies what sort of world order are we going for

[CurdinHenry]

Surely we can drum up something positive

Well yes, in theory this could be the start of something quite wonderful but the practice will be very difficult.

They always were the baddies.

The other dominant powers are Russia and China - no thanks. All the more reason to try and strengthen our ties with the rest of Europe and the EU. Politically, socially and culturally we are far closer to most other European countries than to the US.

Israel and the US have clearly shown who they are.

China is already quietly getting on with running the world

Yep. They've just stopped pretending now.

We are fucked without the us IMO

Iran has not only stated it wants to destroy Israel, the US and the West, it has taken active steps to do so. It’s funded militias and terrorists in the Middle East and the west, provides oil and arms China and Russia, subjugates and massacres its own people, and was working towards having a nuclear bomb that it intended to use on Israel first. it announced this repeatedly. It had a clock in Tehran with a countdown until it destroyed Israel. These guys were not lying!

I know who the baddies are and it’s not Israel and the US.

Israel has shown us that it will work hard to survive (Iran is a literal existential threat to Israel) and the US also will do the same. We benefit from their actions.

Thank goodness they have the moral clarity to know right from wrong and the means and courage to enforce it.

This is whataboutery at its finest. Maybe focus on the actual realities of who has launched illegal wars and perpetrated genocide?

Moral ? the word doesn’t relate at all to events. For shame

I'll just point out, as I have in the past, that this would be better suited for the Politics forum, and that one hopes that America won't be a baddy for too much longer.

The fall of Orban is a hopeful sign!

For shame indeed! How dare Israel defend itself and try to de-arm its attackers? Perhaps it should just roll over and allow itself to be wiped out from the river to the sea, eh?

Genocide is a very specific crime requiring intent to destroy a people. Israel is fighting a war against Hamas, not trying to eliminate Gazans. Just saying a genocide is happening doesn’t make it so. Innocents die in war. It’s a terrible thing. Hamas gets a boon from death statistics because not only do martyrs die for its cause but also it tries to make Israel look bad for fighting Hamas to naive people in the west. Looks like their plan worked.

Again, I am certain about who the baddies are and China and Russia’s buddy Iran is undoubtedly the baddie.

Hahaha while supporting it's allies Russia, North Korea, Cuba, Iran and formerly Venezuela 😂

The fact China turns a blind eye to all the atrocities commuted by the Iranian regime including killing thousands a few months go says a lot.

You can hate Trump but the narrative that the Iranian regime are the goodies is laughably stupid 😂 and if you think a world dominated by China will benefit the UK I have news for you, it wouldn't 😂

This is what the Chinese thing of the UK: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YahQwD23fjk&pp=ygUZQ2hpbmEgZm9lZWlnbiBtaW5pc3llciB1aw%3D%3D

They don't even consider you a worthy adversary 😂.

And yes China is quietly destroying countries economically and you're all falling for it. It's so bad that now Macron is begging China for not only investments but technology exchange which is ironic given China stole a lot of technology from the west due to our stupidity.

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-china-emmanuel-macron-foreign-investment-trade/

Many industries in Europe including the Germany car industry and others are dying due to unsustainable competition from China but you're excited for China to take over 😂 . When China is done with you you wouldn't know what hit you. You're already the stage where your benefit spending is higher than tax receipts to show how fucked the UK is, wait till China is done with you.

Obama frequently stated that as long as he was President, Iran would not obtain a nuclear weapon. He defined this as a non-negotiable national security objective, arguing that a nuclear Iran could fuel an arms race in the volatile Middle East and that Iran could potentially share nuclear material with non-state actors.

White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan presented President Biden with options for a potential U.S. attack on Iran's nuclear facilities if the Iranians move towards a nuclear weapon before Jan. 20, in a meeting several weeks ago that remained secret until now, three sources with knowledge of the issue tell Axios.

Here’s my message to Iran’s leaders,” former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said at a Brookings event today, “the United States will never allow you to acquire a nuclear weapon.”

Kamala Harris has consistently stated that Iran must never be allowed to acquire a nuclear weapon, describing the country as a dangerous and destabilizing force. While preferring diplomacy, she has asserted that "all options are on the table" to prevent a nuclear Iran and has affirmed an unwavering commitment to Israel's security.

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) has consistently stated that if Iran develops a nuclear weapon, Saudi Arabia will develop its own nuclear arsenal "as soon as possible" to maintain a balance of power in the Middle East.

Suddenly Trump is the baddie for attacking Iran despite repeated attempts to secure a nuclear weapon and sponsoring the attack that killed many Israelis and killing Iranian citizens protesting. What rubbish.

How quickly you all forget.

The fact that even other Middle Eastern countries support the US against Iran due to Iran continually destabilizing the region and attacking it's neighbors and sponsoring terrorists groups but according to you the Iranian regime are the goodies.

White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan presented President Biden with options for a potential U.S. attack on Iran's nuclear facilities if the Iranians move towards a nuclear weapon before Jan. 20, in a meeting several weeks ago that remained secret until now, three sources with knowledge of the issue tell Axios.

FYI this was a plan to potentially bomb Iran before Jan 20 when Trump took over, this means Biden was seriously considering bombing Iran just before Trump took office January last year, let that sink in.

Russia is doing very well out of this. Oil price up and US sanctions lifted. It's almost as if the US president is a Russian asset.

Do kindly point to any poster who has referred to Iran as "the goodies".

It's possible for intelligent people to hate both Trump/Bibi and whoever is running Iran now. None of them have the best interests of the Iranian people at heart.

Trump is very loudly destroying the global economy. The way he's carrying on the Great Depression will look like a minor blip by comparison.

While I don't agree with everything he does, he is right to prioritize the US economy. The US has its issues and cannot continue to prop up European countries.

And the goal of the tariffs make sense and I live here and have been seeing my companies now starting to focus on moving production into the US which was the whole point.

Other wins, lower cost of drugs because historically Americans have paid significantly more for medicine and are now being forced to cut prices and increase prices for countries like the UK. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trumprx-abbvie-genentech-prescription-drugs/

The whole point of tariffs is to make it more expensive and unfavourable for companies to produce outside the US and import into the US as opposed to building within the US and it's working.

Yes the global economy will have to readjust but it would always happen either now or in a few years. The world order will ALWAYS change, that's fact. The current order came into play after WWII and the factors that led to the current model no longer hold true eg when the US started supporting South Korea after WWII SK was very very poor with a GDP per capita of under $200, now SK is a successful country so NO the US shouldn't be subsidizing it's security or giving favorable access to SK companies without reciprocal access for American companies. Same with Europe, we should work towards a partnership not the model where European countries take the piss because they knew the US will cover security while also benefiting form easier access to the US market which the US did after WWII to help Europe recover from the war.

Europe needs to sort itself out. As I said this all shows how weak Europe is and how dependent you all are on the US for security and market access, Russia for cheap gas and China for cheap goods. All that she changed and Europe needs to make tough decisions.

"Numerous global companies are expanding U.S. manufacturing in 2025–2026, driven by tariffs, subsidies (Chips Act), and supply chain resilience. Major investments include TSMC ($165B total) for chips, Hyundai ($21B) for EVs, Apple ($500B), and pharma companies like Sanofi and AstraZeneca. Key sectors include semiconductors, electric vehicles, batteries, and pharmaceuticals, with activity concentrated in the Midwest and South.
CBS News
CBS News
+5
Key Companies and Industries Moving/Expanding Production
Technology & Chips: TSMC is building five factories in Arizona, while Intel is building a large "Silicon Heartland" facility in Ohio.
Automotive & EV: Hyundai is investing $21B in domestic manufacturing. Stellantis is investing $13B in Midwest plants. Toyota is moving hybrid SUV production to Indiana.
Pharmaceuticals & Health: Sanofi ($20B) and AstraZeneca ($50B) are investing heavily to increase U.S. production and R&D.
Manufacturing & Tech: Apple is spending $500B over four years on US manufacturing. Guardian Bikes is moving manufacturing from China.
Industrial/Other: Kraft Heinz ($3B to modernize plants) and ElectroCraft (expanding Michigan facility) are enhancing local production.
CBS News
CBS News
+7
Key Drivers for Reshoring
Tariffs: Foreign companies, including Korean firms like Samsung and LG, are considering moving production from Mexico to the U.S. to avoid import tariffs."

And to add, the bigger issues facing Europe is intense competition from China way before Trump and his policies. Countries like Germany etc benefitted form selling higher end equipment and cars to China and now that has changes. China is now moving up the chain to produce it's own higher end stuff and countries like Germany are struggling badly.

Look at an example, Mercedes has China and the US as it's 2 largest markets and look at the trend with China and this has NOTHING to do with Trump. Germany is caught between a rock and a hard place, restrict access to Chinese cars and China will force you out of their market, let the Chinese cars in and the German car industry will literally die because there is no way they can compete on price.

So the focus on Trump masks the long decay and bad decisions in Europe that is coming home to roost. The UK is now spending more on benefits that it gets in taxes, so you are now borrowing to pay benefits with wages stagnated for over 15-20 years, let that sink in. Germany also can no longer afford it's welfare economy and they are struggling to make changes and increase productivity. Don't even get me started with France, so NO Europe's problems are due to European leaders.

And this example with Mercedes is not isolated to Mercedes, it's literally every major industry in Germany France etc. you're all focused on Trump Trump Trump while ignoring the massive issues facing Europe and pretending it's all due to Trump. No it's not.

China is being very coy but the fact is they only want to sell to other countries to offset flaking demand in their home market. If they stop expiring factories will have to slow down and affect jobs so they are maintaining production and dumping on roehr countries. And they only want to buy things like oil but have no interests buying anything that will grow eg the UK industry. Even Macron said it at the Davos forum asking China to please invest in Europe and share technology. How tables have turned, now Europe is begging China for technology, European leaders should be ashamed. It's been obvious that China doesn't play by the same rules, how many x foreign containers did they allow in, steak their technology then force them out? How many foreign companies can ever win a trade court case against a Chinese company in China? Yet they use your courts against you but you are at a massive disadvantage in their home country.

Let's see how Starmer, Macron and other EU leaders rubbing to China will play out, if you think China will give you a delay that benefits you then I will sell you the Eiffel tower for £10.

Yeah yeah, and there will be pink sparkly unicorns...

Back in the real world, the last time that the Republicans came up with blanket protectionist tariffs it led to the Wall Street Crash. When Trump tariffed steel last time around the number of jobs "saved" in steelmaking was dwarfed by the number lost in manufacturing.

Tariffs should be applied carefully, only where they can make an actual positive difference rather than tariffing every product from every country (except Russia, for some reason) across the board.

Now Trump has cut off 20% of global oil supplies, and the US is particularly exposed to oil price rises, being so dependant on fossil fuels. Inflation is spiking in the US as a result.

If you really believe that this serial bankrupt is good for the US economy then you need your head examining.

Hahaha and yet we're starting to see results and even many EU leaders have admitted that he is right the EU needs to step up and pay it's share

And the serial bankrupt is way more successful that you will ever be and he became the president of the US despite everything the Democrats threw at him after Biden came into office.

I would take the economic changes in the USA anytime any day over the economic situation in the UK where the priority is which benefits should we cut or increase. Wages have stagnated for so long and there's barely any difference between minimum wage and professional wages anymore. Ambition is now driven by how much extra benefits can I get to prop up my low wage job.

I'm seeing many Brits moving to the USA to create jobs and open businesses etc while the UK fights over 2 child benefit cap or not. Enjoy your decline.

Blanket tariffs led to wall street crash yet wall street hasn't crashed and many many companies have started spending to bring manufacturing into the US but according to you it's just unicorns 😂 I will take the unicorns while you get your benefit cap lifted and borrow to pay benefits. What a joke.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/us-manufacturing-domestic-tariffs/

And it's not only tariffs that are figuring companies, now they also realize the risk of depending on China. I would rather a US that fights than a UK that just lays there and plays possum to China. You've literally given up as are just managing your decline now.

It's the reasons why he went to war (Distraction from Epstein files) and why he comes out with terrifying rants (for insider traiding) that makes them the Baddies.
This does not mean anyone is saying the Iranian regime are the Goodies. Or if they are they are wrong.

@Ilovelifeverymuch sorry didn't mean to quote you!

Edit: I typed this before I saw your other comment.