To wonder how much of the 'penis portion' complaint is due to women on average needing less calories?

[Carla786]

The competitive undereating thread on here recently got me thinking: I haven't come across this 'penis portion' (men being served more than women) issue in my life, so I may be misunderstanding..

I can see it being sexist if the woman is being served a huge amount less, the man gets the nicest bits etc. But if it's more that both get a full serving but the man gets slightly more, maybe it's partly due to the host thinking (correctly) that the average woman might need slightly less?

You should let people serve themselves where possible. DH likes a lot of potatoes and not much meat and I'm the other way round.

To an extent I agree. In working class/poorer households it used to be the norm for the men to have the greater share of resources because they were the breadwinners. Being healthy enough to work harder - or even work at all - meant a salary being brought home on which everyone else relied. Even if women/children worked, it was almost always the man's pay that was proportionally more.

But there has also been a mindset amongst some women that it's not done or seemly for women to eat too much, linked to 'staying trim for your man', not 'taking up too much space' and being 'feminine', and that's before we get to the performative, attention-seeking, eating disorder or controlling aspects. I've seen it with my own eyes. Food is a very emotive issue.

These are usually the same women who assume that all other women are - or should be - the same, and who will pile food on to a man's plate while serving a woman a fraction of the amount. Yes, on average men do need more calories a day but the difference isn't that much - at 500 calories a day divided between three meals, that's the equivalent of one large roast potato!

If you're going to serve people portions, make everyone's the same unless you know they want something different. Otherwise, just put the food out and let everyone help themselves to what they do or don't want.

You're that determined to be outraged that you've just told me it's not about women needing fewer calories, in response to me telling you it's not about women needing fewer calories because it's something you've banged on about for pages. Amazing.

What?

Sorry it was too complex for you.

I'll be honest, what you said didn't even make sense the first time. You were telling us women eat smaller portions even though many quite obviously don't, and as if our supposedly smaller stomachs are completely self regulating (which would mean we never overate which obviously isn't true either). If we all ate so little because our little tummies couldn't take it, you wouldn't need to tell us about it, would you?

I didn't really go into it though, because it still remained absolutely irrelevant to the actual point, which is not about our calorific needs or our dainty little stomachs, but this: when you are hosting, then the default, if you plate, should be to give all the adults the same amount. It is not for you to police and determine people's intake (you don't have enough information anyway) and it is rude, sexist and bad hosting to give the women less as a rule because they are women.

Perhaps there's someone who actually does measure everyone's height and demand to know how often they run or something and determines portion sizes that way rather than giving less based solely on sex. Obviously that's also crap (and bloody weird) hosting, but I suppose at least it's not hypocritical or sexist too. Let me know how it goes.

I don't need your help with hosting thanks, everyone leaves me table with a full belly.

Though I won't be wasting food by giving the women, who don't finish what they're given anyway, even MORE FOOD to match the men's portions, who do finish their meals, just so they can throw it in the bin while declaring me the Uber feminist.

Enjoy the outrage I'm sure you'll feel over this, bon appetite!

then the default if you plate, should be to give all the adults the same amount. It is not for you to police and determine people's intake (you don't have enough information anyway) and it is rude, sexist and bad hosting to give the women less as a rule because they are women

Hear hear @ThatCyanCat It’s so bloody simple!

Obviously if you KNOW someone who happens to be a woman eats less than someone who happens to be a man that’s perfectly fine to give her less - if you are sure the woman is ok with a smaller plate. But that’s about knowing your family/friends and their eating habits and preferences.

The same would apply if you knew a man had a small appetite, so that’s not about making a judgement solely based on if they’re male or female.

The issue is if you don’t know the woman well enough to know for certain if she wants a smaller serving plate you shouldn’t assume in the absence of her saying so . It’s not rocket science.

For some reason, the "me table" typo made me read the whole post in me my head like Ali G. Me Julie. Bet he gave her less food too.

I think what we can all take from these threads, including this poster's projection about me Julie my "outrage", is that food is a really highly emotive issue for many women. I do feel a bit bad for those people who need to somehow reconcile their insistence that women should be served less with their self image as a fabulous host. Must be hard. I feel more sorry for people who have performative undereaters in their lives though. Like me.

I know a few men who eat less than me most women. So it's not always correct to assume that man = larger portion.

I do serve DH more than me purely based on who can eat more but when we have guests I serve everyone the same and they’re welcome to go back for seconds. I always over-cater!

What a strange post. If people leave the table full and happy the job is done. Food is definitely an emotive issue for you which is a shame really, here we just eat til we're full and leave the rest or eat more dessert if we're still hungry. No drama. It's definitely not hard.

You may think me pointing out your outrage is projection but you certainly seem very angry, all over a plate of food! The passive aggressive vibe is well honed too, I'm guessing you learned that art at the dinner table, it sounds like a stressful place in your house.

This is so obvious it's ridiculous people feel the need to argue. The average man needs more calories than the average woman. Obviously there are exceptions but if I a healthy near 12 stone 60 year old had spent my life eating the same portions as my near 6 ft, 13 and a half stone healthy husband I'd be overweight. Obviously he has bigger portions.

DM is a penis portioner and it's wrapped up in ideals that women should be slender and dainty.*
All males were served more regardless of need and all females were served less with a metaphorical side plate of disapproval if they're too "greedy"

As a teenager I often had to secretly make myself a second dinner like beans on toast to fill up. Fortunately I have always regulated sensibly and avoided ending up with disordered eating habits. It was expected that I should still be reasonably filled from my hot school lunch from 6 hours earlier and therefore content with inactive post-menopause weight-loss portions too

When hosting, I tend to do self service so people can meet their own portion needs and preferences.

*also accompanied by sexist discrepancies in acceptable male/ female exercise... with the disapproval I already get for running, I haven't mentioned the weight lifting...

My MIL is someone who always needs to cook "just enough" food, her food is delicious but she ALWAYS does penis portions. Obviously I usually eat less than DH, but if it's a roast im going to judge the portion i need with my taste buds not my stomach 🤣🤣. It's a bit awkward as we negotiate the last roast potato. When I cook i make enough for everyone to have multiple rounds.

See this is what I don’t get. I always cook enough for there to be leftovers! So no one is going to go hungry because I’ve made more than the actual group with y.

Although if it does all get eaten that’s fine too!

If there are leftovers, we do eat them.

It's fair to note that before washing machines, supermarkets & other modern stuff, women's domestic work was quite physical (not to mention the jobs done by women who worker as maids) though not to the same degree as male physical jobs.

Appropriated? Is 'penis portion' an old term? I thought it was a recent one that originated on Mumsnet.

It’s pretty old. It has been used colloquially since the early 1900s. Found its way into sociological studies of the working class in the 1970/80s

Really? I guess I just assumed it originated on MN...thanks for the info. I suppose I just thought terms directly referencing 'penis' wouldn't have been used like that in the early 1900s.

Yes this is correct, as is the reminder that even physical labour done by women was still less than that done by men in the absolute if not relative sensè.

The word penis being used colloquially to refer to that piece of anatomy dates back to the 1700s when it replaced the older English term pintle.

Phrases using ´penis portion’ were in use by the early 1900s.
the phrase ‘penis envy’ shortly followed in 1922

Penis did not originate as a scientific term.

When I’m dishing out on a normal day - no visitors - I give myself less and give DP and DS1(17) more because they are absolute bins, particularly DP for whom the concept of leftovers is one of life’s greatest mysteries. It’s true of course that men need more calories. If I have visitors though, men and women get the same - a decent big serving - with the option of seconds. I don’t want to assume people’s appetites and don’t want hungry guests!

Your dates are wrong re 'penis envy'. Please cite your sources for all dates in your post.

I’m ft 5”1 and slim my husband is 6”1 and slim I eat as much as him , I serve us both the same size portions. We don’t snack usually never have , so we like a large evening meal . In the 26 years I’ve known my mother in law she always serves me less it drives me mad ! I don’t want seconds I want enough on my plate to start with so I don’t look greedy going for seconds as nobody else is …!!! Because they got enough food on their plates as they are male 🤬🤬🤬
many moons ago in the Uni canteen the dinner lady used to serve the guys these massive portions of lasagna and chips and my dinner was minuscule, I brought it to her attention I was paying the same as them so I’d like the same size portion , she was shocked when I showed her my empty plate .