For thinking it is odd for trans men to give birth

[Overthinkingotter]

Talked to friend today and got on subject of trans men having babies. I said that, imo, being pregnant/giving birth is the last thing I’d want to do as a trans man as surely the process of pregnancy would be incredibly triggering for someone with gender dysphoriac? I the said that, if I were a trans man who wanted a baby, I’d most likely find an alternative way rather than carrying the baby myself.

I thought this was quite a mild comment, but fried reacted as if I had said something quite offensive/bigoted.
Is my view really so unreasonable/extreme?

It's much higher than the chance of the nurse in your smear on Tuesday being a trans woman. I know mine is zero (literally have a smear on Tuesday) because the nurse has been at my GP for a few years and did the last one. Even if she is off sick and covered, the chances of that cover being a trans woman is also tiny. I shall report back.

Then you have inferred wrong. I request HCPs of specific demographics, myself.

So yeah women don't matter because you've got men to consider, I heard you the first time.

Honestly,
"Whether or not it should be a risk is subjective based on people's personal views on the topic of trans people"

Uh-huh. "It" being women being who ask for single sex intimate healthcare being uncertain if the HCP that will show up will be a trans identifying male. "It" being women's access to single sex health care. Oh yeah! Super subjective stuff, it only effects 51% of the population.

Also "The risk is tiny! Tiny risk! Risky no likely!" on repeat is childish, you are clearly intelligent so you are deliberately being obtuse.

It's not difficult to get, so once more and just for you, nice and loud from the diaphragm:

It doesn't matter how small the risk is. It shouldn't be a risk at all!

And if you don’t get them? But they refute that and tell you you are wrong they are that demographic, you’ll be fine won’t you?

Don’t males with a trans identity claim they need to use female spaces in case a man attacks them? There have been zero attacks on TIM in the uk in male facilities. By your logic, they should all use male spaces as the risk of attack is so tiny.

They are not men. Men don't give birth. Maybe in future they will be able to. But the proceses sounds horrific.

And that’s fine because they accommodate you and im
sure there are legitimate reasons and I know there are shocking statistics about how Black women are mistreated, particularly in pregnancy.

Forget how rare/unlikely something is for a minute and think of a hypothetical.

Imagine you request a Black female HCP. You are told it’s no problem, they can accommodate that.

Along comes a woman in Blackface. Would you accept that or would you refuse as you have asked for a Black HCR for a reason. Because as long as they pretend they are something, then it becomes fact, right?

And however unlikely, if it happens then it’s fine, right?

These discussions - which have the potential to be illuminating - always fall apart for the simple reason that one group of participants are coming from the position that some people are authentically transgender (‘trans women are women’) while the other group are working from a completely different premise (natal sex defines gender and ‘trans women are men’).

Hopefully one day we’ll understand more about what is happening when people feel that their natal sex does not reflect their gender. It’s been a recognised phenomenon for thousands of years and happens to a small - but not minuscule - minority, in diverse cultures all over the world. And I hope that when we understand it, we’ll navigate these difficult issues in a more satisfactory way.

@Darker lots of mental health issues have existed for many years, do we just support everyone in their delusions then?

Well, yes. Who wouldn't?

Natal sex defines sex. Gender is a social construct that isn’t generally medically relevant.

The very fact that people are expected to ‘believe’ that gender overrides sex implies a level of faith. The trans rights movement is vile and misogynistic (have you seen some of the placards they wave) which actually shows that they have very male characteristics ironically and want to keep women where they belong

Nobody is told to ‘believe’ that natal sex defines sex because, you know, it does.

Just because some people choose to claim they are a different sex, it doesn’t mean we need to go along with it.

And anyone who genuinely had gender dysphoria should be treated for that , as with every other mental health issue.

On the plus side, all the absolutely shit (including rape and death threats) that JKR gets for daring not to go along with the delusions has led me to discover Harry Potter 🤷‍♀️

Oh hadn’t realised Cecilia was in agreement the trans delusion does = mentally ill

Bipolar, psychosis and many other conditions have been around for centuries. Shall we just let people get on with it or should we recognise it as a MH issue and do our best to treat it?

except that when they lie about men having babies and then try and change the wording about medical requirements that affects other people.

You keep speaking as if everyone views a trans HCP the same as you. They pointedly do not. That is what makes it subjective.

What is a lot more objective is the number of trans HCPs.

Women with these conditions have babies while on potentially harmful medication all the time.

It happens far more frequently than trans men having babies while still on testosterone

That's never happened.

I am not discussing what spaces I think TIM should use. I am mostly discussing the risk of a HCP being trans.

ah the “never happens!” War cry! Bazinga!

But it is the same premise. You’re arguing women should go for smear tests even though there is a small risk their HCP may be a TIM. By that logic, TIM should use male spaces as their risk of being assaulted is also small.

Well since you and I got into this circular argument because you were ridiculing women as irrational for self excluding because there is a possibility, no matter how remote, that upon asking for (or expecting because of the terms of the letter they received) for a woman HCP they may instead be presented with a trans identifying male HCP... I'd say it relevant.

It's important to those women, it's important to feminists that access to single sex intimate health care be preserved, and importantly no matter how many women don't have an issue with it, they don't get to consent for all women.

If a woman asks for same sex intimate health care, she should be able to be certain that a female HCP will be the one who turns up to do the procedure.

It hasn't happened to me, though. Do you want me to lie and say a white person pretended to be Black?

No, but your argument is that if they did say they were black you would agree and validate their claim, wouldn’t you?

They want to be a man but want to give birth. This is what lets their argument down.