For thinking it is odd for trans men to give birth

[Overthinkingotter]

Talked to friend today and got on subject of trans men having babies. I said that, imo, being pregnant/giving birth is the last thing I’d want to do as a trans man as surely the process of pregnancy would be incredibly triggering for someone with gender dysphoriac? I the said that, if I were a trans man who wanted a baby, I’d most likely find an alternative way rather than carrying the baby myself.

I thought this was quite a mild comment, but fried reacted as if I had said something quite offensive/bigoted.
Is my view really so unreasonable/extreme?

Exactly @LiviaDrusillaAugusta i wouldn’t want a coil or IUD fitted by a person who doesn’t understand or accept female anatomy…

Men have nothing to do with it. Pretending that other women are just pandering to men because they don't agree with you is a petty move made by misogynists. As a Black woman who often has different experiences and perspectives than the dominant culture, it's the type of internalised misogynoir I've become familiar with from other women.

Getting back to the topic, the way I see it, if a woman requests same sex intimate care, she is likely to get it because female.nurses outnumber male nurses anyway, and there are very, very few TW who are HCPs. So I just don't see it as a risk worth influencing your health behaviours.

That’s funny really because that attitude is what is causing this.

Interesting that you think refusing a procedure out of reasonable risk assessment is more irrational than deciding you can change sex.

I haven’t had a smear for years and so far have refused a mammogram. If that’s irrational then fine.

Exactly, women give birth, breast feed, menstruate, men don't, no matter how they would like to identify themselves.

That's not true at all. There are several reasons someone might be feel more comfortable with someone from a similar cultural background to them for intimate or personal healthcare. Especially where one ia from a minority or oppressed cultural background.

Well good for you. If they said it will be performed by a woman or a man pretending to be a woman then at least you would have an option.

And as a white woman, I wouldn’t belittle your experiences because I haven’t lived them.

But it is concerning why you can’t understand the issue. Of why I am withdrawing from testing

I didnt say it was more or less irrational. I said it is irrational. Maybe I think you are all as irrational as each other.

I understand your theory, I just think it is illogical. That doesn't remove your right to choose to decline healthcare, though. For this, or any reason.

@GlovedhandsCecilia if you asked for a black HCP and they send someone white whilst insisting to you that this person was black would that be OK?

Sure! Call me a racist with internalised misogyny for good measure. That seems a sensible response to what I've posted which was... Checks notes... Yup! Still just giving my support for women retaining single sex intimate health care as needed.

I'll let the rest of the thread readers decide if you're right on that front. Personally I hope it at least made you feel better about your weak arguments, I don't think it helped though if I'm honest.

Well done though, you made yourself look even sillier by saying that men have nothing to do with it. Bit embarrassing for you really.

Newsflash! "Trans women" are men!
I prefer the term trans identifying males because it's not a deliberately confusing term like "trans women" was designed to be. Says exactly what it does on the tin, a male person with a trans identity.

Again, you are deliberately missing the point that this whole, a male HCP might show up when a woman requests single sex intimate care, should not be a possibility at all.

I think really you could just go back to page 10 or whatever and just re-read my posts, you're just leading us in circles... oh no wait! I'm a racist now, that's new!

Have I ever said that it would be ok to do that to someone requesting a female HCP?

Wait @GlovedhandsCecilia youre actually acknowledging that a woman could request a same sex hcp and purposely not be given it?
the way I see it, if a woman requests same sex intimate care, she is likely to get it so only likely to get it, meh.. if a man presents?

Okay to take the analogy further, if someone ‘blacked up’ that would be hideously offensive and nobody would pretend to go along with the idea that that person is Black

Some bloke dressing up and pretending to be a woman is also offensive . Being privileged and choosing to dress as a woman and pretend to be a woman, whilst not knowing what it is like is offensive.

The lack of biological knowledge is also a concern.

Yes ive said they might, but ive said the risk is tiny. Especially at your local GP where staff are likely to be long(er) term employees so you'd know if there was a trans identified nurse.

However it will costs lives. I have a risk of breast cancer but actually I am not going to be gaslit by the NHS into going along with people’s delusions.

If it costs my life ultimately, then it does. I won’t be the only one.

But now you have moved away from I don't want a male and/or trans identifying male HCP to your personal feelings on trans people/trans women.

That is where it starts to seem like this isnt just about ensuring same sex HCPs where patients want them.

That's a risk you have decided to take because you view the risk of a trans woman doing your mammogram as too high for the benefits of screening to be an advantage to you. Even though the pure nunbers suggest that you are randomly more likely to get a female doing the procedure on any day. That is your informed choice to make.

Once again for the people who refuse to hear it!

It doesn't matter how small the risk is. It shouldn't be a risk at all.

Perhaps. But the risk that exists is tiny. That is pretty uncontroversial statistically speaking.

I didn’t say I didn’t want a male HCP (as long as I know there is a possibility)

I don’t want a trans HCP because if they believe they are a woman, they clearly don’t know what a woman is, and believe women can have penises.

And therefore probably shouldn’t be poking around in anyone’s genital area because they don’t know what they are doing,

Tap tap! Is this thing on? Testing one two, check! Mic check!

Once again for the people who refuse to hear it!

It doesn't matter how small the risk is. It shouldn't be a risk at all.

You say that like it’s a bad thing, but I have inferred from your posts that you think women shouldn’t be able to say no to having a male tr treat her without her consent?

Reread what you responded to, I covered that it might be that you just don't want a trans HCP:

"I don't want a male and/or trans identifying male"

But you are so insistent in also telling me your personal views on trans people, you don't register that at all.

It’s a bit like the car seat belt isn’t it? The likelihood you’ll end up in a collision every time you’re in a vehicle is probably tiny, but am sure most people still out their seatbelt on.

Same goes for you. Whether or not it should be a risk is subjective based on people's personal views on the topic of trans people. That is why I said "perhaps". Whatever our personal opinions are on it, they are just opinions. Some more informed than others (on both sides).

What is also true is that the risk of the nurse you encounter in a smear on Tuesday being a trans woman is tiny.