Is there now a lack of personal responsibility?

[niknak1234]

Is there now a lack of personal responsibility?

Another thread inspired me to ask this question.

Now don't get me wrong there have been events over the last few years that have increased the cost of living. COVID, Truss budget, Ukraine/Russia, Iran etc.

Now I am by no means denying they haven't had a big impact, but are people using them to avoid failings in their lives?

The thing is , personal responsibility comes with limits.

You can always look both ways when you cross the road, but you can still get run over by a maniac (on purpose, drink driving, speeding, etc) .

Exactly! Let’s all bash the young for being irresponsible when it was actually previous generations banging out 10 kids while being dirt poor. And yes they’ve had benefits for some decades now and had free milk and school meals back in the day.

It was actually the older generations who got given and upgraded bigger council house every time they had more children. I think the people in the golden era of that are in their 50s and 60s now. Rarely happens anymore. If anything it was the elders who freeloaded.

I don’t think this is an either/or - yes I think lots of people lack personal responsibility or choose to make poor choices however sometimes difficulties are nothing to do with personal responsibility either as others have said- - it is also across ages and classes- is it lack of personal responsibility that means some women have 4 kids by a partner/husband that was a useless tosspot from the very first one and end up in a poor situation ? Yes in my honest opinion, however it is also poor personal responsibility if a middle class guy with a family leaves his comfortable well paid job because he fancies a bit of freelance and can’t be arsed any more and yet has no big assets or ongoing clients to bring - yep that’s a lack of personal responsibility too, same in my opinion with elderly people who run their adult children ragged with demands yet refuse to move to something more suitable or buy in help.

OK - your thread may have been better framed as "Is there now a lack of critical thinking and logical reasoning?"

In which case, I'd say yes but it's far from new.

Re personal responsibility: as PPs have described, people do seem to have become more distanced from a sense of involvement in the world - and, so, from the understanding that their own actions have effects. A lot of people are big on 'rights' without 'responsibilities'. That's never going to work for them.

My responsibility lies in living within my means, I am a pensioner and can't really earn more by working more hours, so I don't heat my house adequately because I don't have enough money to pay for the gas or electricity, I don't travel to visit my sister's as the fuel for my car is too expensive. The fact that these things are too expensive for me, is not my responsibility as I have no power to change it.

Yes, I have tried to engage with a couple of those

I don't think I've had an answer to any rational question as yet....

I think one reason why some of us were surprised by your question is that it feels like you're saying "water is wet". I absolutely agree with you. I'm just puzzled that you felt the need to point it out.

I try and keep away from those really crazy people though. I just hope they don't take over in the UK.

I mean... world events do affect the individual, in the sense that things like the cost of living, the practicality of working and travelling abroad etc are affected. But yes, some people are overly dramatic about the extent of those effects. I don't think that really constitutes some kind of universal crisis of lacking personal responsibility. In other words, they are exaggerating, but so are you.

Well, I don't totally disagree, but I don't think it's entirely new. Last night I watched a fascinating documentary about the Hatton Gardens Heist. They interviewed one of the gang, who had been a career criminal and he blamed being born in the war and playing on bomb sites for his dishonest life...

Yes there definitely has been a shift towards lack of personal responsibility.

In the industry I work in my boss is always saying what a big difference he’s noticed between our customers’ behaviour now vs 10-15 years ago. In terms of taking personal responsibility.

Personal responsibility is code for ‘we refuse to acknowledge people start in different places’ …health, finances etc.. and pushing that agenda is what has led to the decline in UK infrastructure and society. What it will lead to now is the removal of free NHS services, safety net benefits and a myriad of legal protections for the working class majority.

So have at it for disparaging people you don’t feel are as a strong as you from a place of privilege ..maybe good health, age or some other advantage.

My house was peanuts the cost of an energy bill now …I know I was extremely lucky and ‘personal responsibility’ is just taking from people in need

As somebody in their 50s I would say it was our parents. I remember my auntie’s and parents just getting new council houses and flats at the snap of a finger. Single men too.
And then once they’d been able to save considerable sums of money as a result of no rent and Partners living and contributing to the family.
They would just buy houses for less than three times their salaries

Anyone who has ever studied ‘rights’ know that these are inalienable and entirely separate to responsibilities or they truly aren’t rights…if something has a demand it isn’t a right

I think perhaps it is more a lack of acceptance of their fate. Every generation has its struggles and has to rise to it. Some elements are better than before, some are worse. Look at your own family and compare your life, your mum, gran and your daighter, if you have one. 4 generations, who didn't struggle at some point? Look at the men in the same way. No one ever had it easy all their lives. That's in the general sense. Taking things more personally, do you know anyone who plain sailed all their lives? Think of friends, colleagues, neighbours your age. While we know life isn't fair and some are dealt a much poorer hand, on some level everyone has a cross to bear and it's up to each individual to own it and work with what they have. These days less and less people accept their fate. They complain about their struggles blaming everyone else or society or the economy etc. Yes those factors might be the cause of the problem but it doesn't change that it's your fate and you just have to suck it up and do your best.

MIL stopped taking her kids to the health visitor clinic when they stopped giving out free stuff. 🙄

Tony Blair's government in all but name abolished personal responsibility, I think.

I couldn't disagree more. Your rights don't trump mine. We're responsible to each other's rights. If you chuck rubbish on the street, you have no right to clean streets. Etc (I can't be bothered to keep coming up with illustrations).

Maybe a Ukrainian does?

Oh yes, I remember the bottles of vitamin C orange and a berry type drink that was added to water. They used to hand out at the clinic.
Don’t get that these days

Certainly there are unavoidable links between rights and collective responsibilities.

If everyone has a right to access something (healthcare, education, transport infrastructure, a justice system etc) then we somehow have to collectively pay to make those things available.

If too many people opt out of the responsibility of contributing then it eventually becomes impossible to grant the rights.

Yes true my mother and aunties are in their mid to late sixties now and describe just being given lovely new council homes merely because they had children. Upgrades when they had more children and one aunt still regularly moves using the hone swapper fb group they just scroll through and pick who they want to swap with. No issues with stamp duty or anything an home owner would have to deal with. Another aunt brought hers years ago for a really cheap price.

No ill will that was just the done thing at the time but it kind of irks to hear them complain about freeloading youngsters.

I think mental health has become a blanket excuse for a lot of things.

I was sent to work a new contract last week and the woman they sat me next to wasted no time in telling me that she had ADHD and that her brain was a lot faster than mine as it was bouncing around making all these connections while I was talking to her. It didn't take me long to discover that she kept hijaking the conversation back to herself at every opportunity.
In the old days (I'm 59), we would have called her behaviour and conversational style, 'borish.'

She spent all afternoon fiddling with her phone and when I glanced over at her and she noticed me, she then told me in a matter a fact way that ADHD people become hyperfocused on things - but didn't really explain how or why she'd spent all afternoon without doing a stitch of work (we are supposed to be doing the same tasks). The next day she also did very little as well. She talks a lot about herself, and loves to throw labels around: Her husband is undiagnosed autistic and she says her children probably all have ADHD as well as that when they are older she will get them tested. Every conversation seems to consist about herself and her mental health or other people's mental health. I've tried a variety of general conversational subjects (food, travel, books, music, TV, etc) to no avail as she her favourite subject seems to be herself.

I was told when I was brought in (temp) that it was because they had fallen behind with work... you don't say!

ADHD is not a mental health condition. She sounds like a neurodivergent person doing their best whilst being judged by people like you. All these things you find so objectionable are common traits and she may be having more support as part of reasonable adjustments.

You know fuck all about her yet feel happy to decide her disability is an 'excuse'. Lovely.

Thank goodness for parents who can let their minimum wage age earning children live with them until they can afford to move into a house share. A single person working minimum wage can always work another job!

Quite the opposite for me.

My parents would never have considered providing activities or training or education or financial help. They saw their job as to feed and clothe a child, nothing more. They assumed the state would provide everything else

I chose to bring ds into the world. I have raised him to adulthood, providing sports tuition, social activities, commercial training, helping him get a first job, . Now I will do everything I can to pay his university fees and help him in to his career because I have no faith in the state, which quite clearly will not.

Except in the past when people had large families they didn’t expect anyone else to pay to house/ feed them.