Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

[Grtscott]

Some threads I've read this morning have helped me to realise that my thinking about men has changed since joining MN. And not in a good way.

There's an undertone that men need to do things the woman's way, or it's wrong. That men should be grateful for any sex that women are willing to give in a long term relationship, even if that peters out to no sex at all.

Men are seen to be babies who can't do anything for themselves, and need to have someone pre plan and organise their lives, but god forbid they fall into the pattern of behaviour of expecting their female partner to do these things for them, as that's what they've always done.

This thinking is observable to a greater or lesser extent across the boards.

I've also recognised where this thinking has affected the way I think about my wonderful man, and sometimes in things I've said to him or actions towards him. I need to watch this in future.

I'm concerned that the general thinking about men on this website can't be good for society if this is the way women think, and are encouraged to think by others.

If women treat men this way collectively and have low expectations around them, no wonder the bar is getting lower.

No, I think MN can be too soft on women who hurt other women too, or children. The threads trying to excuse Paris Mayo's infanticide by insisting she didn't know what she was doing were something to see.
I also really dislike posts saying 'only the cheating partner is in the wrong, the OW doesn't owe you anything', which often assume OW doesn't know the cheater is married: sometimes yes, but sometimes no.

If anything, the “issue” with MN (and most of the posters) is that they expect more from men, because they know they can do it. Men are just as capable of being fully functional adults/parents and that should be the basic standard/expectation for a decent human being.Some choose not to be. That’s on them.

Mumsnet seems to be full of male apologists. My favorite at the moment is the woman who was told that it’s her fault her partner keeps spoiling her stuff in the wash because she should sort it out for him. The key word here is “keeps”. That’s not a mistake that anyone could make. It’s persistent-in a way that presumably he doesn’t act at work.

I agree with much of this post, but it shows a gobsmacking lack of understanding and sympathy in relation to erectile dysfunction.

Can you imagine how you'd react if a man in his forties posted about a woman partner with sexual dysfunction and specifically difficulties in achieving physical arousal, and asked "who wants to be saddled with that?" I'm sure they'd be absolutely slated on here, and rightly so.

Yes, lonely people oversharing isn't only a male thing. Men may be more likely to open up to a woman/think she should or would listen, though.

I think it's a mix. Sometimes people come on here and post asking if their partners bad behaviour is normal or not as there are some women who've lived with this so long that they can no longer see clearly that they are living with a tosser. Hopefully MN advice and shared experiences can give people the clear vision they need to go forward, whatever going forward looks like for them.

However, I find the cries of 'divorce him' immediately if a man has just done something annoying, or unthinking unrealistic and very unforgiving. Nobody is perfect. Far better to work together and sort things to stop things like this happening again.

I hope that people can just take the good information here away and ignore the extreme views. I guess most people can.

I agree. Men are equals so it’s right to expect them to step up, but respect goes both ways.

This - horribly unfair.

No I can’t say I’ve personally seen this.
I have seen lots of feminists who correctly identify the harmful impact of sexism on themselves and the men in their lives who’ve had enough.

it’s not ok for men expect their wives to do everything and for women to be ok with them getting lazy because in the past they enabled it.

ive seen similar attitudes regarding women and doing things men’s way on this board too. Have you heard of confirmation bias? If you’re looking for it you’ll find it.

you need to treat your husband with respect. If you are taking stuff out on him because you’re triggered by what you see on here, maybe you need to think about your own attitudes towards men and how things are in your relationship.

I do agree with this. Its mental that normal human interactions by men get interpreted as ' sexist, toxic and entitled.' What's wrong with a man starting a conversation with a woman? Just make it clear you would rather be by yourself if you don't want to chat. Also men helping women out. When I went to the gym for the first time a very nice bloke, who was not hitting on me and never has, saw I was a bit clueless and came over and showed me how things worked. I don't want men to be put off normal helpfulness and friendliness. I don't think that will make the world better. If a man (or woman) is trying to interact and I don't want him to, I am perfectly capable of politely communicating that.

No. I think MN at times reflects the negative experiences many women have with men.
I think that by acting as a space where women can share these and offer perspectives and suggestions to manage them, it raises awareness of the problems and encourages women to explore ways to mitigate them.
There is a myth perpetuated by people uncomfortable with women doing this that this is a site of man haters intent on discrediting men and exercising a dangerous influence. This is not supported by any evidence either from content (where balanced comment and pro male comment together vastly out weighs any genuine 'anti male' content) or by any real life impact.
If you are able to give one evidenced example of a societal change that has been unfairly detrimental to men arising from 'unhealthy attitudes' arising from this site, then I'd be open to review my opinion of course.

I will say that the things some men write on Reddit and Pistonheads give me more negative opinions than what women on MN write.

I don't think the content on MN is going to change many people's minds OP. Those who have positive relationships with men and good men in their lives are not suddenly going to start mistrusting them; similarly the MNers who hate all men are not going to be persuaded otherwise. There is a lot of crazy stuff on MN, but I think most posters are intelligent enough to recognise that most areas of life contain shades of grey rather than being purely black and white!

I have to disagree with the third paragraph, viz: ‘Men are seen to be babies who can't do anything for themselves, and need to have someone pre plan and organise their lives, but god forbid they fall into the pattern of behaviour of expecting their female partner to do these things for them, as that's what they've always done’
While there are some posts along these lines they are outweighed by posters saying they are unhappy as the man or men in their lives are treating them badly.
And that is their valid experience.
As PP have said, Mumsnetters rarely post about their happy relationships with good and kind partners. Why would they?

Hmm, sounds controlling and toxic, hope you pressed the panic alarm!!!!

What do you think of the men who use it as a site to find sex partners?

Or the posters who were condoning teens having sex?

Yes I do, its almost militant. I think men get a really rough ride sometimes not always warranted.

the amount of threads where someone puts grim, LTB or call him useless at the start of a thread tends to set the standard.

The narratives on here of exact ‘time off’ sahm is a full time job so DH should pay you, he shouldn’t be allowed hobby time once he has a family, if he had children from a prev relationship they aren’t part of your family.

really bizarre attitudes at times

the use of labels too, guaranteed every thread someone is diagnosing ND or something else

That’s a really bad example. As you say the key word is “keeps”. It’s a mistake I could easily make, I ruined a pair of my own very expensive socks this week by inadvertently putting them in the tumble dryer. It would only have to happen once for me to separate anything that could easily be ruined so my posh socks will no longer be washed with everything else and won’t go in the laundry basket. If you keep doing the same thing the result won’t change.

No its not assuming the OW doesn't know he is married. Its stating the H is the only person who is capable of maintaining his fidelity or of cheating. No woman can make him cheat. The responsibility for his faithfulness is his, and his alone.

Maybe the answer is to limit time on MN?

A lot of SM can be fine in moderation but starts to skew views unhelpfully if you use it too much.

Or stick to hobby boards, child advice etc

In the vast majority of cases on here, women are responding to how men treat them. I've not seen anything towards men or any man that isn't wholly justified.

The incessant 'give him a list' that comes from both men AND WOMEN is where the perpetuation of them being helpless comes from. 'Leaders and providers' but they can't work a washing machine or work out what goes in it without repeated step by step instructions. On their own fucking head.

My late dh was a great dh and father and so was my dad. I think it's given me high standards regarding men. I'm amazed at what some women on mumsnet put up with in a relationship.

I guess if you have low standards due to having a crap father and relationships, you'd probably think it was normal and that people are being harsh on mumsnet to expect any more of men.

and that is fine, because nobody can see inside my marriage. But for example, i hold a very low opinion of so many men, and the more i see on here about individual abusive marriages, the more i see small behaviours among my friends that suggest they may experience the same away from outside eyes.

I am neutral to sceptical about all men until they show me otherwise (the coffee shop man mentioned upthread was entirely of the OPs making. He only "looked" as though he was begging for interaction, so the bountiful OP indulged that. On her not him, I'm afraid)

As it happens: my DH is fab, we have a lot of the same interests, we always have (which is how we ended up together). He does cooking, cleaning, and did his part bringing up our kids including recognising that SAHMotherhood wasn't for me and took the last 18 months of our parental leave so i could get back to the workplace). Has never complained either that i have mostly earned (way) more than him, and even when i haven't, has never complained if i bought something for me on a whim. And it goes the other way too. And of course we bicker sometimes. And sometimes we disagree fundamentally on a thing (but not often).

So why would i make a moany post about him?

Yup. A man has sexual problems so he's porn-addled, "death-grip", useless, probably a narcissist/misogynist and should be binned off asap. A woman has sexual problems and she deserves understanding, support, patience and she should probably bin him off because he doesn't deserve her.

I believe it does. MN is very black and white, all or nothing. It's very cliquey - if you don't agree with the hysteria you are labelled a 'cool girl' or a 'pick me'.

Realistically, yes, I know a horrifying number of men are pricks. Men can abuse their power. They can have horrible, patriarchal attitudes.

But there are good guys, kind men, gentle men, loving and respectful men. My husband is one of these and I see how the 'all men are' discourse affects him. He's never hurt anyone. He protects and loves. He's not oblivious to the hatred that some women have of all men.
My father, my grandfather, my uncles...good men.

We run the risk of isolating good men.

Black and white arguments are easy. But don't settle for easy.