Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

[Grtscott]

Some threads I've read this morning have helped me to realise that my thinking about men has changed since joining MN. And not in a good way.

There's an undertone that men need to do things the woman's way, or it's wrong. That men should be grateful for any sex that women are willing to give in a long term relationship, even if that peters out to no sex at all.

Men are seen to be babies who can't do anything for themselves, and need to have someone pre plan and organise their lives, but god forbid they fall into the pattern of behaviour of expecting their female partner to do these things for them, as that's what they've always done.

This thinking is observable to a greater or lesser extent across the boards.

I've also recognised where this thinking has affected the way I think about my wonderful man, and sometimes in things I've said to him or actions towards him. I need to watch this in future.

I'm concerned that the general thinking about men on this website can't be good for society if this is the way women think, and are encouraged to think by others.

If women treat men this way collectively and have low expectations around them, no wonder the bar is getting lower.

MRAs have arrived

Right...but a lot of the time people seem to excuse the OW from judgement entirely, I've seen lots of comments like 'She owes you nothing' etc. I mean, I think it's fair to say we owe it to other people in general not to do things like lying or cheating- stuff which isn't illegal but it clearly unethical.

Well the label thing tends to have a sex to it (I dont use the term gender), so as a child, a male child with difficult or challenging behaviour, rigidity, lack of communication and engagement is talked about as ND or perhaps already diagnosed so lots of advice about how to support, behaviour is communication, mums being persuaded to put up with aggression and violence etc etc due to SEN

Adulthood comes along - apparently his violence and aggression or rigidity/lack of communication, black and white thinking is now just toxic and arsehole behaviour and nothing to do with ND.

Otoh the long running threads on here for partners of ND men seem to indicate that often ND is used to excuse behaviour that may just be due to the man in question being unpleasant.

One hundred percent this. My dad was absent and my step dad was violent and abusive and for a long time my standards were pretty poor to the point I ended up in my own abusive relationship.

After that I met my daughter's dad who is the most thoroughly decent man I've ever met and I couldn't have given my daughter a better dad. He's her standard and I think God every day for that. She's 10 and has no truck with 'boys will be boys', I'm near 50 and I will never be in a relationship with a man again. Once you know what a good man looks like, you can't help but realise how fucking awful so many of the rest of them are.

Women respond to how men treat them. Nobody is plucking it out of thin air. Mumsnet is almost a form of consciousness raising - women talk about their experiences and we see patterns. That's why men don't like women gathering.

Also a poster further back, cant scroll back so cant remember who and cant quote the exact words but said something along the lines of 'I know how a good man should look and behave'

Just turn that into I know how a good woman should look and behave. Said by a man. I wouldnt be happy with that.

Pigeon holing anyone is not helpful

This.^^

Thank you for sharing your experience @VimesandhisCardboardBoots

I agree that men need to be called out for bad behaviour. That's not what this thread is about.

My beef is when it's assumed men are the ones in the wrong because the woman says so. The SD bedroom/bacon crab threads are good examples of this.

Or if a man forgets a date, despite his partner having organised his life and diary to the nth degree for the last 30 years.

Or a woman insisting she has to know someone is coming to stay in their flat ahead of time, even though she won't be there, so that she can tidy up and get food in because the man living there too who invited the guests won't do that. (Not the OP, but a subsequent poster)

A recent thread on the sex board about a husband masturbating had very reasonable responses. They considered the man's perspective as well as the woman's. That thread would have been torn apart on Relationships, due to a husband suggesting his wife participate in a sexual act with him. I've seen that happen before.

Yes, I do think AIBU overall is weird. Not just about men.

Well it's certainly my go-to when I see women on here defending men at all costs that they're either handmaidens or men's activists.

Are you also "agog" at the countless threads describing men's violence, lack of active partnering and parenting or child abandonment?

What sexual act?

Its very possible but equally when women post about how ND affects them on threas which are about disability, invisible disability with assumptions of 'well why cant someone just do this, or that, or change this or that, or work at this or that', a lot of sympathy is given and allowances made for those posters as to how their ND affects them. Lots of discussion about how if you are ND, ALL of your behaviour is therefore coloured by that. Behaviour is communication etc.

Some people need to read about the feminist theory of male-identified women (nothing to do with women who identify as males).

I think MN you tend to get a pressure pot and therefore a disproportionate view.

There aren't many threads about the husbands who do just get on with life, are responsible partners and fathers or the women who have good marriages with a sex life.
I work as a team with my husband most of my friends marriages are the same out of 10 though there are 2 where I hope they wake up and divorce their husbands as they are useless and only add pressure to my friends.

In the rare occasion these threads pop up you will get responses of yeah right or he will cheat etc.

It is a bit polarised in that. As for the bacon one I did say to wash hands because of food poisoning risk potential to spoil a holiday! But I also have Environmental health understanding.

You realise that if a quarter of voters think the husband should wash his hands after handling raw meat (not exactly the most unreasonable thing in the world) that three quarters of voters thought he shouldn't have to - ie the vast majority?

I saw a lot of people on the spare bedroom thread say that kids always trumped guests and that her husband should get a say. I replied wouldn't she want her kids to have a room each at their dads I think.

Neither of these threads was a simple case of everyone agreeing with the OP that what the woman wants she should get.

I guess if you have low standards due to having a crap father and relationships, you'd probably think it was normal and that people are being harsh on mumsnet to expect any more of men.

or you could have had that as I did, make sure you don't make your parents mistakes, and just think the OP is right.

Some women on here are men haters. If men spoke about women the same way............. I'm female aged 43.

There are double standards on MN.
There are many shitty men.
There are many very bitter women hurt by shitty men- some justified some less so.
There tends to be the less great situations posted.

If you are in a good relationship with a man it can also be like with teens - just you wait it will go bad from posters.

Have a family member and friend of family women who picked very poor partners - left previous kids - and had kids when men had feet out the door then moan and are so very bitter - they also have no sympathy for others but never acknowlege how much their own actions led them there - all men are bad even ones helping them out when they stop and anyone better placed should just wait till their lives implode even if there's no sign - so it's there in RL as well so not surprising it shows up on-line as well.

Men’s behaviour is feeding negative attitudes towards men

No not agog because its a given that a) that is morally, legally and socially intolerable behaviour that needs to stop and the poster needs to be made safe b) its a given that OP is not talking about genuine abuse/violence, she's talking about every day interactions that men and women get wrong sometimes, because we're all human

Well, this is a safe space where women can vent. This is what’s going on behind closed doors in our lives. These are the men some of us are living with. Our mums & grannies had to to put up & shut up. At least more women can get divorced now (or not get married at all). We’re seeing the reality on MN.

What I find disappointing is that I find I go to Pistonheads for detailed discussions of the world today, like Ukraine, Iran, the economy and of course the fantastic Trump thread as these type of discussions just don’t exist in MN.

MN discussions are always more personal, not bigger picture. Women wanting to share their individual stories to relate things back to them.

i leave the OW out of the equation entirely though. If a man is married he knows. And he must say "no". If an OW doesn't know he's married and he pretends not to be? how is she to blame. If an OW is a predator, and doesn't care he's married? he knows and he must say "no".

The laundry one the other day was bloody infuriating. Yes, it happened once. And it really hurt/annoyed the OP. So what should she do? make sure it doesn't happen again and the easiest way is to keep her special laundry separate. I learned that the hard way after accidentally washing a silk blouse. It hasn't happened again, and that was 40 years ago, because i keep special laundry separate. (and my DH does take care of it if he has time and i don't, without asking, and does it properly)

Step-mum wanting her nice new house to have 2 spare rooms and for her (frankly disgusting) SDs to share a room so only 1 is disgusting? I'm right with her because she owns the house too (and she was receptive to ideas about them earning the spare room by keeping their room tidy, and pp were so keen to ignore that the SDs share a room 3 ways at their main residence).

So yes, some posters are keen always to back a woman, be against a MIL or Step-mum and hate men. the rest? give a balanced array of ideas, views and comments. That is how conversations and asking for advice goes. (and if you want mean girl vibes? forget AIBU and head for the straight-talkin'-gals at S&B)

Yes Mumsnet is very anti men - brackets them as all the same

Well they do, and are quite rightly castigated for it by other women, on websites like this, except that this forum then replicates that vice versa.