Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

[Grtscott]

Some threads I've read this morning have helped me to realise that my thinking about men has changed since joining MN. And not in a good way.

There's an undertone that men need to do things the woman's way, or it's wrong. That men should be grateful for any sex that women are willing to give in a long term relationship, even if that peters out to no sex at all.

Men are seen to be babies who can't do anything for themselves, and need to have someone pre plan and organise their lives, but god forbid they fall into the pattern of behaviour of expecting their female partner to do these things for them, as that's what they've always done.

This thinking is observable to a greater or lesser extent across the boards.

I've also recognised where this thinking has affected the way I think about my wonderful man, and sometimes in things I've said to him or actions towards him. I need to watch this in future.

I'm concerned that the general thinking about men on this website can't be good for society if this is the way women think, and are encouraged to think by others.

If women treat men this way collectively and have low expectations around them, no wonder the bar is getting lower.

Interesting that OP commends the Sex board for being the best part of the site

Lots of menz there.

Surprised also, nothing to do with this thread, that people talk a lot about this or that 'board'

I simply look at 'active' and respond to things that catch my eye, I dont even know what category they're in hafl the time.

Ah. The world is being held hostage by a bunch of tantrumming male toddlers, but women are too emotional and shouldn't be given the vote.

Mumsnet only lets rip on the poor behaviour of women when the victim of that behaviour is another woman. When the victim is a man there will be endless attempts to find a way to blame him for her behaviour.

I think you’ll find that men are feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men.

Nope.

Not seen this.

😃😃😃

I am a long-term single 44 yo woman who enjoys good sex, and believes everyone who wants it, should be having it. I also love men and I'm surrounded by many good ones.

I do agree though, that unsupportive men who will watch you (wittingly or unwittingly) break your back, while they lead an easy a life as possible, should not be facilitated in relationships. And so many (not all) MN husbands, or at least the ones featured in posts, are utterly unappealing.

Unwashed, erectile dysfunction, untreated medical issues, cannot maintain a clean living space, leaves shit strewn all over the floor, never cooks, barely earns, doesn't engage with the children, never cleans, never reads a letter, never books an appointment... who wants to be saddled with that? My dad would think he'd failed me if he knew I was tolerating that madness.

As a man who occasionally posts on here I do notice how many posters report negative experiences with men in their lives, and I find it disappointing that they and others sometimes seem to accept that this is the way men are. It does appear that low expectations of male behaviour are endemic.

I don't think we can jump to the conclusion that this is down to Mumsnet feeding unhealthy attitudes towards us men though. Might it not be that far too many really are a bit crap, and women see this and understandably draw conclusions about male behaviour from their own lived experience?

Maybe the most effective way for us men to persuade women to see us in a better light is for us to behave better?

Well yes, of course it is. I've even started to get tiktoks about this attitude in a joky way!

That's MN though so of course you are going to be told you're wrong.!

Yes OP, Mumsnet has created a dangerous place where all of us with our little lady brains gather to destroy the men.

Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

No, men are feeding unhealthy attitudes towards themselves...

Have you seen how many woman are assaulted and murdered each year by men? It's currently being called a National Emergency.

Thank you.

Those are 2 of the threads I couldn't bring myself to post on as I got so frustrated by what I'd already read.

"Would be really be that stupid?" is the thread which has triggered this one.

Or a step-mother.

No, men are feeding / creating bad attitudes around men.

Yes, but as I am often told, most men are lovely so we can't talk about VAWG in case the lovely ones are offended.

Lol, is this an April Fool's joke OP? 🤣🤣

Mumsnet as it is now may well be feeding unhealthy attitudes because most of us can see that a huge number of posts are purely to be goady and not posted in good faith. It seems far too many, even a majority of posts are coming from either “journalists” looking to write a story, or bad faith actors looking to stoke a culture war, or even posts placed seemingly only to drive traffic. Many of these appear to be AI generated.

Previously if would have given a more honest view, which may well have seemed unhealthy because the majority of posts were good faith posts where women were simply posting about their lived experience. Given few will post about positive situations because of the nature of a website purporting to give help and support, it stands to reason the narrative will skew negative.

The only way Andrew Tate and people like the OP can gloss over these facts is to cry about how women are emasculating men. God forbid women should be able to openly discuss relationships online. It must be stopped immediately 🙄

No. I think Mumsnet is feeding more healthy attitudes towards men. The attitude of "stop giving them a free pass because they're men".

And I say that as a man.

A lot of men are lazy. A lot of men are rude, unthinking, bad partners. And a lot of men are abusive. I'm not saying that because I've spent too much time on Mumsnet. I'm saying it because it's what I've seen, because it's what I've had modelled to me, and because for some of the above, it's what I've been.

I grew up letting my Mum do all the cleaning, all the cooking, barely lifting a finger to help because that's what I had modelled to me. My brother is still like that now, whereas in our home the split is 50 /50 between DP and I.

I cheated on my first few girlfriends, because again, that was what I had modelled to me by my Dad. Everyone still thought he was a great guy despite his serial affairs. His life didn't get ruined when he was found out, so what was the harm in me doing the same?

I'm not saying men are worse than women. Women can be lazy, women can cheat. Women can leave and never see their kids again, leaving the other parent to raise them.

The difference is, women tend to get crucified for that behaviour. A woman who sits on her arse all day is lazy, whereas if I spend all day sat watching rugby game after rugby game it's well deserved downtime. A woman who abandons her kids is literally Satan, whereas when a man does it it's often made out to be the bitter ex-wifes fault.

People, by default, are a bit shit. What stops us being shit is the need to be socially accepted. Without that need, the human race probably wouldn't exist. Women get judged plenty for not upholding the social contract. Men don't, and as a result we're still a bit shit.

That is changing, slowly. Men are being held to account more and more. And Mumsnet is a part of that. It's helping women realise that their husbands, fathers, brothers, sons, behaviour is often not acceptable. It's helping women teach their sons to be better men.

It's not enough though, and it won't be until men start properly holding other men to account.

I think some posts are unnecessarily harsh on men but I don't fully agree with you either.

I do think that some mental load problems are caused or exacerbated by women often having higher standards, so they may default to doing it not simply to make sure it gets done, but to make sure it gets done their way.

This is a women-led site, centred on parenting.

I believe that, on average, women invest a lot more of their time, energy and thinking into being good mothers, than men do into being good fathers. Women are far more likely sacrifice their own wellbeing for the sake of their children (and, to a lesser extent, their family, friends and communities).

So it is hardly surprising that the many, many ways in which this male selfishness impacts women get played out on this board.

That's before you you even consider male violence etc.

This

I think now is a good time to remind people of the rules of misogny:

1. Women are responsible for what men do.

2. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.

3. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

4. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.

5. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

6. Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.

7. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.

8. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

9. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.

10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.

12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

13. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.

14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

15. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.

No, all I seem to read about here is men who’ve left their “partner” financially vulnerable or men who do nothing around the home despite their wife also working, men who’ve cheated etc etc.

However I’m also aware that not all men are like this as it doesn’t resemble most of the ones I know in real life, in fact it helps me recognise all the more what a good one I’ve got - it doesn’t make me treat him worse!!

People don’t post about their great husbands, only the problematic ones.

gosh. well, on reflection: nope.

(not all) men can be absolute misogynist fuckers. Some really appear to hate women. And if you spend any time outside of MN online you will see it. Everywhere. Times online comments to the very depths of Reddit and beyond.

And other men who don't say "oy, mate, pack it in" are part of the problem. Always have been.

And my theory is that now they are feeling the heat as well as those in the Manosphere/Incel-culture, they don't like it. Don't like being held to account. Which is, for the most part, what women do here.

And yes, even here there are man-haters. Compared to the woman hate "out there"? meh. I don't agree with them, i understand some of the reasoning when they explain, but meh. And as long as men hold all the cards in society? i am not part of the problem because I'm not causing the problems that men are getting pushback for.