AIBU to discourage uni for daughter, I'm worried about debt without career plan?

[HappyLemonChickenCurry]

My eldest child is starting to think about her next move after 6th form and is talking about university, I went to uni in the 90's when financing was very different. She is academic and wants to go because she loves learning, but won't be studying a degree subject with a specific career goal or profession in mind. I am finding myself discouraging her because of the debt she will come out with and from what I hear about finding work after a degree, but am I wrong? Is the debt worth it for the formative experience? I would be really interested to hear experiences from those whose children have recently graduated, or peoples thoughts in general. It feel so counter-intuitive to be discouraging!

You can't say that when so many jobs/professions these days stipulate a degree as being the entry requirement, whether relevant or not.

Yes but the love of learning is at the root of that - many jobs require a degree because you have demonstrated that you want to learn, have critical thinking skills etc. Your point doesn't take away from mine, I know what you mean. But university doesn't train you for a job, that isn't what it's for.

I don't think you should encourage or discourage. Be honest about what you can do for her and what you can't and make sure she understands the facts about student loans and repayment. @KeyLimeCake I suggest that you do the same. Be clear with your kids about what is possible for you, not what other parents do.

I'm clearly in the minority here.

I have 2 uni aged children and I didn't encourage them to go based on the following points:

DS1 would never have managed academically
DS2 might manage but would struggle and isn't sure what he wants to do.

I feel strongly that uni should not be the "default " as it was when I was that age in the 90s. It's a hell of a lot of debt and I do query the value of many degrees.

FWIW, DH and I both have degrees, albeit BScs only.

I always tell them that uni isn't going anywhere. I started mine at 22 and am so glad I waited.

Surely that depends on the university and the subject? Many medical and AHP qualifications are degrees taught in universities, also teaching and that's just off the top of my head! oh also vets!

I agree about it not being the default. I think life is too short and evanescent for ANYTHING in life to be a default.

It's not your decision or your debt. And she'll never pay it off. And the debt isn't the same as credit card debt. I see it as a graduate tax

Yes, I'm not saying certain jobs don't need a specific degree but what I'm saying is GENERALLY, degrees do not train you for a job and you should go if you want to LEARN rather than for a job. Plenty of law graduates don't become lawyers and me having a Creative Writing degree doesn't make me into a best selling author. Learning was the end goal, nothing else. I'm a teacher too and what makes me one is that I'm an expert in my subject because I went to university for the love of my subject first and foremost.

I've been through this with my own daughter who is coming up to 19yrs, she off to uni in September. In the end we found that the job opportunities for her chosen A Levels were non existent, even getting a foot in the door now is hard and apprenticeships are competitive. All of her cohort in school had left last year or were going this year.

DD wants to be at Uni, she's not ready to stop her education, she needs to be with people her own age and to experience more in life. I can't tell her not to go because I loved it and I think she will do too.

Do you struggle with comprehension? Where did I say I will not support them to go to university? I already have savings for them to go if it proves to be the right route for them. What I said was I would not blindly support them without a plan. Everyone here talking about formative experiences, that’s all lovely, but I also know a lot of people who went and dropped out because it wasn’t the right decision for them, they went with the crowd and pressure, they were then left with unnecessary debt and self esteem issues. I know others who went and now work in supermarkets with a sense of entitlement, lost.

It’s an extremely privileged position to be so flippant about £50,000+ experience. I just don’t want my children to be so entitled they think they have the right to do something without a plan, especially when they need me to pay £30,000 towards it.

All of that does not amount to “I will not support my children to go to university”. Stop trying to make the matter so simplistic, OP is allowed to be concerned and have an opinion, especially when she has to pay for it.

Apprenticeships now are for more than the trades, they are white collar jobs. Accounting, the law, optometry, engineering, IT etc.

The education included can lead to a degree level qualification.

There is a very broad range of options nowadays.

I wish somebody had talked me out of it. I went in 2013 so have a giant plan 2 loan.

I enjoyed the uni experience but I got no value out of my degree. In recent years my employer has put me through a relevant degree for free and now I earn fairly well but I’m paying out a big chunk every month on that pointless degree.

except that wasn't what you said....
"I am of the exact opposite view - I think you should ONLY go to university for the love of learning and to broaden your mind. Universities are NOT job training academies, "

I feel most kids choose a uni to see where they can party and get drunk the most for 3 years. And then the career and job stuff they expect to just stumble along and get one.

It's not "debt" in the traditional sense. It doesn't affect credit and you don't end up with bailiffs at the door if you can't pay. You need a degree for nearly any professional level job and many of them aren't too picky about the subject.

Rather than encouraging her not to go, try encouraging her to explore career options, importance of trying different internships etc when she is there, as well as societies and making friends in a new city. If she wants to go YABU to discourage her but make sure she’s aware of all her options and how to get the most out of it if she does decide to go.

I had a similar issue with DD - except she wasn’t academic
We went to Uni open days and she got (conditional) places but I also strongly encouraged apprenticeships
I knew she’d have a great time at uni socialising and combined with a poor work ethic - thus would have been a disaster!
She ended up doing an apprenticeship and was offered a job before she had finished - and lives it
Her apprenticeship has taught her what her best friend is doing at university!

Excuse me?

I don't need your permission to post.

We weren't like this with our DC. We pushed them to strive for the best uni possible for their fields with the best reputation. That means Oxbridge, lse, ucl, imperial etc. they didn't get into Oxbridge but are all attending/attended top London unis and have taken advantage of what was offered. And yes we looked at degree paths and where the better paying careers lied.

My eldest has graduated recently with a 1st class humanities degree and a Plan 2 student loan! Not great, a real pain actually but she's learned so much and loved her degree, she's doing freelance work and may do a postgraduate (which we'd pay for) while living at home. My second is going to university in September to do an arts degree with a Plan 5 loan. Again not great but what's the alternative? an almost impossible to get job in Asda or similar and then what? Not everyone is suited to train as a plumber or electrician, so I think a few years learning, maturing and mixing with all sorts of people is a good thing, rather than see your world start getting smaller at 18!
Ultimately you have no right to discourage your daughter, just support and inform her in good faith.

We also carefully looked at unis and made sure they're are top in their field with established and respected courses.

She loves learning. That is why she should go to enable her to learn more. I look after a 19 year old with learning disabilities. He wanted to go to uni to study sport. I'm not at all sure he will be able to work in this field but it is what he loves. SS have told me off for encouraging him to go to uni as they said I am encouraging him getting into debt. People learn so much more at uni than academic study. He is learning how to budget his money. How to prioritise needs over wants, how to fit in, which as he is neurodiverse he does not find easy, how to cook and clean up his own mess. If he has to pay a small percentage of his earnings to repay interest on loan until in 40 years it gets written off, so be it. He has been at uni a year and it is the making of him. I am not at all sorry I encouraged him to go. For the first time in his life he is making his own friends instead of just having the teammates he plays sports with. He now has the confidence to join a sports club outside of uni where it is more structured. The choice should be your dad's and whatever she chooses you should support and encourage. Paying a little extra in tax is not a lot compared to what she will gain. Many jobs are now graduate recruitment only. A lot of lower skill jobs will be replaced by AI in her lifetime.

Same

"To be educated is not to have arrived (at destination); it is to travel with a different view." R. S Peters. I recall this from my degree over 30 years ago. Still very true today.

Well I guess the question is what she plans to do at 18 instead.

Your concerns on the debt are totally valid but the harsh reality is lots of jobs are closed to non graduates, even if there’s nothing about the job that requires specific knowledge.

I’m not fully sure what the answer is, but it has to be her decision.