AIBU to discourage uni for daughter, I'm worried about debt without career plan?

[HappyLemonChickenCurry]

My eldest child is starting to think about her next move after 6th form and is talking about university, I went to uni in the 90's when financing was very different. She is academic and wants to go because she loves learning, but won't be studying a degree subject with a specific career goal or profession in mind. I am finding myself discouraging her because of the debt she will come out with and from what I hear about finding work after a degree, but am I wrong? Is the debt worth it for the formative experience? I would be really interested to hear experiences from those whose children have recently graduated, or peoples thoughts in general. It feel so counter-intuitive to be discouraging!

The threshold keeps dropping in real terms.

I’d take your own advice about scrolling on by as it ‘aint that hard’.

Better you do this than continue to clog up the OP’s thread with your issues.

Apprenticeships are great IF you know what you want you do. They’re training you for a job so employers are looking for young people who can demonstrate that they really want to work in that sector.

I didn’t go to university, I studied with the OU. University is so much more than education, it’s a rich life experience and I’d only discourage my own child from it if they weren’t engaged in the educational side. Even fairly soft degrees can be useful in unrelated fields if you get a first and go to a respectable university, as they show intelligence and hard work.

Once graduates are earning over the threshold they will pay 9% on the difference between salary and threshold.

So 25K threshold, salary 30k. They will pay 9% on the 5k difference.

Also, everything you're read recently is about plan two loans which have a higher rate of interest than the plan your daughter will be on. Both plans have negative aspects, but overall the positive is a earning a degree. Not having a degree will always put a ceiling on future earning and potential.

Just my opinion but I took a year out and it was completely life changing, totally worth it. I wasn't sure about uni and I was a) more sure by the time I went, b) had a realistic view of how hard it was to get a job that year so I became a far more hard working focused person and c) picked up a trade that changed my life.

I think if your DD wants to go to uni that is great but she needs some semblance of practicality about the experience to give her the great experience and a good life / prospects / not a huge debt problem after.

Most students don’t know what they want to do - that’s what the uni careers guidance is for. You’re being so unreasonable.

@HappyLemonChickenCurry Some dc do actually become psychologists! Choose uninersity very carefully though! She will certainly never become one without the degree! I’d be wary of her going to a second division university, but if it was Bath or Oxford, she’d be employable. Look at stats for employment.

She will get careers advice and will have uni careers advice. If she doesn’t get a decent job, the degree will be virtually free ! Low repayments on low salaries!

However why doesn’t she investigate psychology careers and pathways if she loves it so much. Is it part of her IB qualification? She’s bright enough to look at careers so why hasn’t she? Most psychology grads don’t become psychologists but she must have some idea what other jobs might be available! Teaching for example. My neighbours DS is a journalist following his psychology degree.

We are not rich enough to pay for 37.% of young people to go to university. The vast majority have loans. Most parents don’t have £45,000 minimum to hand over. She’s not unique and don’t project your fears onto her. It’s not fair. Just guide her towards the best universities that get the most into work. Being with others with career plans usually galvanizes dc! Psychology is a gateway degree for the majority but if she’s great at it, why assume she cannot follow it as a career?

I would support her in going to uni, but I would also encourage consistent research into career paths while she is there and encourage to find as much work experience while at uni.

Maybe see if you can research the quality of careers services at the unis your DD is interested in. I went to a RG uni and found the service there useless for me. This was 15 years ago though.

I have already commented but wanted to add what are the alternatives you think your daughter should consider OP? Because:

• these days most entry jobs will still ask for a degree
• someone who is academic and has shown no interest in learning a trade would not suit an apprenticeship
• the job market is tough for everyone so who do you think will employ a young person with no degree and I assume little work experience?

So realistically what do you expect her to do?

I think you need to look at this long term rather than just focus on students loans. In her situation going to higher education still makes the most sense.

She can always look at living at home while she is doing her degree and getting a part time job.

Totally agree with you OP, my DS2 is at uni and I worry alot about the debt he will be saddled with before even getting a job.

Ds1 chose a different path and is earning and learning, no debt

We earn that as a joint income (salary probably split 20/80, but overall it puts us above the threshold) and have supported/supporting two through uni. Both doing 4 year degrees (one with an industrial placement year, and one doing an integrated masters)

Yes it's bloody hard having to top up, we've had to stop saving for a few years. We have tightened belts. Even with a good income we don't own our own home and rent increases have been added during this time too. However, our "high" income means they are reliant on us helping. That's just a fair thing to do. It's not their fault our joint income is deemed high by SF.

The alternative is my husband finding a job that pay less so our kids can claim more loans. That's a ridiculous alternative.

My oldest is graduating this summer. After living back home last year while completing a placement year it allowed them to save and fund final year. They have now secured a graduate role in degree field for September. They will be earning more than I do.

If we hadn't of supported during the degree they wouldn't be in the position of having this job offer as they wouldn't have been able to afford uni on minimum loans.

That's the ceiling people speak of. I am at my ceiling by not having a degree, they are starting above my ceiling because of their degree.

Going back to the OP. I struggle to understand why a parent that has experienced uni, and all the benefits that has given, would not want the same for their child. It smacks of pulling up the ladder after you've used it.

Ultimately, I believe my role as a parent is to push my child out into the world with help so they can surpass me. I feel that has been achieved with oldest and hopefully will be similar with youngest.

I am of the exact opposite view - I think you should ONLY go to university for the love of learning and to broaden your mind. Universities are NOT job training academies, they never have been. However, the commercialisation of the uni sector had made people feel like they need a 'return' on their investment. She should go to learn how to debate, critical thinking, expressing ideas, formal writing. I went to university with no career in mind and I've spent £8k on a Masters degree just for the love of it. University is for learning, nothing else.

Apprenticeships are fantastic for some kids but they're not a silver bullet for every school leaver and I wish people would stop suggesting they are the answer to everything.

They were re-introduced and encouraged in large part because too many kids were doing meaningless and expensive degrees just because they were there. But they are not for everyone.

An academic child who wants to go to university is unlikely to be suited for an apprenticeship, which is designed to provide vocationally-focused training for specific (non academic) careers. We're constantly being told our kids should all train to be plumbers or electricians but not everyone can or wants to do this.

Also apprenticeships are as over-subscribed these days as degrees are, if not more.

That was a lot of words to defend one position, it works for you, fabulous, it won’t work for everyone, it’ll put different people under different financial pressure and for others it’s not simply about blind affordability but if it brings good value, you can’t tell someone what they should value.

I went to uni, I utilised my degree and have a postgrad (all self funded), but I will not blindly support my children into uni even with a household income of £140,000. 19 years old is adult enough to understand the financial pressure of £50,000+ of debt to themselves and over £20,000 financial pressure to their parents. It is not too much to ask to expect the student to discuss with the parent, have some kind of plan and negotiate. If it wasn’t for the household assessment and expectation of parents to contribute I would say it’s down to the student. But alas, they’re not treated like adults, putting parents in an unfair position.

Really uit is up to your daughter, l went to university in the 80's so l didn't accrue debt, it was a fabulous formative experience and l don't regret it at all, but, and it's a big but my degree never helped me one iota with my career.
With 20/20 hindsight l wouldn't want to accrue a large debt (of any kind,pay now pay later, pay when you earn £35k) at the beginning of my journey, but on the other hand my degree taught me critical thinking and how to research, which l have used every day since.

Wow.

Good luck with all of that. Also don't come back in a few years asking why your kids hate you so much. 140k and you won't sub them 5k? Again, wow.

I couldn’t agree more. I’d be encouraging her, not trying to put her off.

I’ve pushed my kids towards university but with jobs at the end of professional degrees. Also they have to/will live at home whilst there as we can’t afford to pay for all the living accommodation. We are lucky in that we live within commuting distance of 5 universities including Russell Group ones. That will have to do them. They can get their own property when they have a job.
University gives them a chance to mature and grow. Also, like someone else said, sometimes just having any degree is enough to secure a job.

YANBU

Encourage her to read (or listen to) 'The case against education' (Bryan Caplan).

It looks at all the socio economic factors around education, particularly university. The author is a uni professor of economics so not anti education. The book weighs up the pros and cons of it all really well. It's an American book but transfers really well to the current UK uni fees situation.

Then let her form her own decision.

Some will always make it. My DS is in his first post after graduating and is earning 40k, my friends DS at 28 is on 90k. My DS has a clear path for promotion and loves what he does. My friends DS is exceptional though and was employed by an IT firm when studying, he was very good at breaking in to complex IT systems and won a few hacking competitions.

Some won’t make it because there simply are not enough graduate level jobs and they will have mediocre careers. Being academic is not always enough it’s about fitting in and having good soft skills. Some just have them it’s their personality. My friends DS was always engaging and rather charming and people just like him, he was like it as a small child. Another friends child is quite frankly obnoxious, he was as a child and is as an adult.

It's not just about the degree and money though ... it's a huge experience which often changes them for the better.

My DD has graduated and is now in a job that she loves but she didn't need her degree to do it ... some friends of mine think this has been a complete waste of time and money.

She left home at 18 rather shy and lacking in confidence ... she found her tribe at uni and blossomed. Didn't come home to live again, met her GF there and is loving life, they've just bought a house together.

It's not your choice. Job training isn't the sole purpose of education. Going to university is a formative experience she should be able to have if she wants to.

I agree with this , partly because at 21 with 3 years earning your parents income becomes irrelevant - I would also encourage them to get a house share even if not at uni - my son did at 18 - it made him far more grown up !!