AIBU to discourage uni for daughter, I'm worried about debt without career plan?

[HappyLemonChickenCurry]

My eldest child is starting to think about her next move after 6th form and is talking about university, I went to uni in the 90's when financing was very different. She is academic and wants to go because she loves learning, but won't be studying a degree subject with a specific career goal or profession in mind. I am finding myself discouraging her because of the debt she will come out with and from what I hear about finding work after a degree, but am I wrong? Is the debt worth it for the formative experience? I would be really interested to hear experiences from those whose children have recently graduated, or peoples thoughts in general. It feel so counter-intuitive to be discouraging!

So many of these sorts of unhelpful replies on MN lately. Along the lines of, “your dc is an adult now, not your problem”. These comments are so pointless and unhelpful to the OP. As if a parent stops caring or supporting their kid in any way the day they turn 18 🤣 of course it’s normal for a mother to worry about their child going out into the world as a young adult for the first time, and how they’ll cope, how much debt they’ll have etc. And want to find a way to be supportive. Also if the mum helps her out financially it may well be her debt!

There was a feature yesterday on SKY News about the huge debt plus interest some graduates have - one girl had £90,000 and a boy - £100,000 (tuition + accommodation) - some had no job after graduating. The interest can be Bank of England rate Plus 3%.

I agree with you OP, the amount of graduates with useless degrees, who can’t get a job and are in huge amounts of debt these days is very high. For kids from privileged families, whose parents can afford to pay their tuition fees then uni can be great, they get to have that experience and might end up with a very slight advantage in the job market, but for those who aren’t in a privileged position like that, an Art History or Media degree isn’t going to do shit for their job prospects and just leaves them stressed and in debt. I’d encourage her to do some research on careers she thinks she might enjoy and look into alternative routes into them. She may find something she loves the look of that does require a specific degree, in which case it’d be worth it if it led her directly into that role. You don’t have to go to uni and get into shit loads of debt just for the “love of learning”. If you love learning, there are loads of other ways to learn for free

Psychology graduates are two-a-penny (sorry), so if she's keen on developing a career in psychology she'll also need to consider the costs of further professional training/education following graduation.

This can be substantial, but could be worthwhile if she's ultimately wanting to work in clinical, forensic, research or educational psychology. But if she's person-focused and academically minded, it could be a perfect choice for her.

All of those routes are (usually) Masters then Doctoral routes, perfect for an academic mind, but she needs a clear financial plan, to be honest. Doctoral routes are also highly competitive, but there's a link below which might help.

https://www.nihr.ac.uk/doctoral-opportunities

She might also consider a career in Public Health, which can pay very well, and also opens the door to working internationally, e.g. UN, WHO etc. Again this is a very long path, but definitely worth considering.

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/career-planning/study-and-training/graduate-training-opportunities/specialty-training-public-health

This might seem far away - she needs to obtain her degree first! - and ultimately it's up to her of course, but it does no harm for mum to be coaching in the background. I eventually did a doctorate (different subject) and didn't have the advantage of an engaged and interested parent. So, good luck.

If the mother chooses to support her then she's choosing the debt knowingly.

There is nothing unhelpful about pointing out that no matter how much a parent cares for their adult offspring, they are still indeed adults.

To discourage her daughter would be to interfere imo, and she could well end up with a daughter who resents her for it, when she looks back.

If this post (or any other) is not to your liking, that's your own problem to deal with.

As someone has said earlier, even without a plan, a degree is always good to have. She won’t be able to access many industries just because of it - and in many occasions, what the specific degree is is not that important, but you won’t get through the door without one. She would be very limited.

Are you suggestions other things to her instead that might be of interest?

You could have said the “To discourage her daughter would be to interfere imo, and she could well end up with a daughter who resents her for it, when she looks back.” comment in your first post, that would actually have been some advice for the OP. My point was, all these “none of your business, not your problem, nothing you can do about it” replies to posters looking for advice are just pointless and unhelpful. Why post at all if that’s all you’re going to say? It just clogs up the thread

God, what are you, the Mumsnet Chatgpt?

Again, if other people's posts aren't to your liking, that's your own problem to deal with.

Instead of 'clogging up the thread' telling people what they 'could have said'.

I never went to university and I don't regret it. I did an animal care course at my local college for a couple of years, and then ended up joining HMRC at the bottom as an AA and just worked my way up the grades. I'm now an EO in the home office as a decision maker and I'm quite happy, it only took two years to get to EO level once I left HMRC.

I would stop looking at it as a debt and more as a graduate tax.

Why
like anything else if you want something in life you pay for it it’s not a tax
you want a degree you pay for it

its not your choice either way to decide. If she didn’t go because of YOUR fear then that’s on you. Leave her to make her own decisions. She can go and work and get into debt too. Most people will have debt of some kind, at least hers will give her an education at the same time. Her life, her choice.

She’s academic and loves learning and it’s a wonderful way to launch into adulthood, have fun, experience new people and independent living, etc. There are lots of dumb ways to accumulate debt, but a degree doesn’t necessarily need to be one.

But I think she has to have a passion for something and know, to an extent, what she wants to do with her life. If she truly has no clue, then travelling and working for a year might give her some perspective before she dives in.

Realistically, unless she’s going into a trade, she’ll need a university degree. Dh is in a traditional craft, think something like glass blowing, but also has a business degree. His degree is the difference between a little hobby side hustle (which is what a lot of people who do what he does have) and turning over £50k+ a month (which is what he averages).

All of my 5 sons went to uni . The last thing I thought about was debt . I was proud that they had passed A levels. They could then apply for 'graduate' jobs which are on many job requirements . This sets them up for life and as a parent you can't do any more.
Unless there is a brilliant apprenticeship then many decent jobs after A levels aren't that easy to find . Uni gives them a bit of independence and gives us parents a bit of freedom .Maybe a course that offers a year in industry might be an option to earn / learn ? Yes - a debt paid out of wages which 4 out of the 5 have paid now in full. I would have loved to have gone to uni .

Psychology is a good degree as it you cover a lot and the amount of. e.g. statistics you do can only doors. The Biology and Neuroscience is a good idea.

Would it help you think of it as a graduate tax? She'll never have to pay it off.

It's different to other types of debt though as payment is linked to income. If you're ill and unable to work, or work part time for caring, or are in low paid work then you either pay very little or don't pay at all during that period. That's very different to a normal loan where you have a set amount to pay each month regardless.

Because you don't have to pay it off.

Has your DD actually been to some uni open days herself ?

My friends child graduated this year, lived at home & went to their local uni. They competed a nursing degree. They secured a job in their chosen department.

I agree with others
I enjoyed my degree
I moved away
I made life long friends
I joined lots of social groups at uni
I grew as a person
It was the right choice for me

Suggest that your DD should choose her future

That right the rest of us pay for it

Lots of students don't have a career plan when they go to university. She is academic, loves learning and wants to go. It is an experience she might never get again. Yes I know some people do it later in life ...I did that myself ...but it is a very different experience if you wait until life responsibilities crowd in on you. She may well wonder what all the studying was about if she can't/is discouraged from going to university and might grow to resent you when she sees her friends taking this next step or forging ahead with careers later.
Yes it is expensive now and there is a lot of hype about the cost of loans. In actual fact they don't start paying until over a certain pay point and the percentage is not assessed from the whole salary, only what is over the pay point. If jobs fluctuate it stops until they are over the pay point again. Some will gain amazing jobs through going. Others will not. You don't know what she might choose later. My DN ...a high flyer ...did accountancy with one of the big four after her degree and earns mega bucks. My dgd ...not a high academic flyer is going to university to study photography this September. Where will that lead ...who knows but probably not to big earnings but it's what she wants to do. She will eventually have to pay any loan off ...but only when she earns above the threshold. Good luck to her ..and good luck to your DD. I wouldn't be discouraging her ... especially if she is academic. She will probably have an amazing time and over the next three years decide on what direction her degree will take her 🤩

No it's still the same. And even when they do start paying it back, I don't think it's too bad. My son and daughter hardly notice their student loan repayments each month and it doesn't affect their credit rating. Both have managed to buy houses!

I'm sorry, I do understand the concern about paying back loans and the broader question about whether degrees pay or not... but I'm a bit gobsmacked that you would actively discourage an academic child who is keen to learn from doing so.

Universities are literally designed for kids like this. They open up the potential for a completely new way of looking at the world, a career that they might not have thought of, radically different paths in life. And, post the loans, far more money than they would have if they didn't have a degree.

Yes its expensive, yes it's no longer a guarantee and yes you should caution her on this but why would you limit her in this way?

I know everyone is rightly concerned about the value of degrees and weighing up the value of racking up tens of thousands of pounds' debt for something pointless. But discouraging a bright, driven child from following his or her (sensible and achievable) dreams is taking this too far.

Nope just tired of seeing such irritatingly pointless “advice” on here. Ain’t that hard to scroll on by if you have nothing helpful to say. I saw a thread recently where a poster was extremely distressed about her 20-something son who was having severe MH problems and she was asking advice on where to get support for him. Someone replied something like “he’s an adult, it’s none of your business, he needs to look after himself”. Besides showing zero understanding about MH, it was completely unhelpful and therefore pointless to post, and probably left the OP feeling even more helpless than she did before. Hmm maybe it was it you… 🤔

Have you investigated other options? Apprenticeships are fantastic. She can study and work, the employer pays for the course which could be a degree or equivalent level qualification. She earns money while doing it and will not have debt at the end.