AIBU to discourage uni for daughter, I'm worried about debt without career plan?

[HappyLemonChickenCurry]

My eldest child is starting to think about her next move after 6th form and is talking about university, I went to uni in the 90's when financing was very different. She is academic and wants to go because she loves learning, but won't be studying a degree subject with a specific career goal or profession in mind. I am finding myself discouraging her because of the debt she will come out with and from what I hear about finding work after a degree, but am I wrong? Is the debt worth it for the formative experience? I would be really interested to hear experiences from those whose children have recently graduated, or peoples thoughts in general. It feel so counter-intuitive to be discouraging!

@AgentPidge that simply isn’t true, you can go into the CS at any grade without a degree, I’ve just hired an SEO without a degree. I work with G6s without degrees. It’s actually an excellent example of a career path with lots of opportunities WITHOUT requiring a degree.

I’d say just make her aware of the ridiculous interest rates on loans etc. and also present her with some good alternatives but then let her make her own decision.

I graduated when loans were a lot less but personally I’d have went regardless. I went to a great uni, had amazing experiences, met people from all over the world and made several friends for life.

The problem is if she doesn’t go, apart from her missing out on a great learning environment and what can be an amazing life experience - it may hinder her ability to apply for as many jobs.

So many jobs require a degree as a minimum even if it’s not relevant to that particular job . If she doesn’t know what she wants to do know an apprenticeship probably isn’t an option.

OR can she take a year out and work, spend the time saving money and figuring out if she has an idea of what kind of subject she would like. She could try some free online short courses in things she is interested in.

I agree with this. Figuring out what they want to do while at uni is very common.

I am a university lecturer. Students like your DD who are academic and live learning get so much out of their degrees! It’s not just about the subject, it’s about the skills you learn which are highly transferable. Bright, motivated students also find their own opportunities and generally do really well afterwards.

Students who go to uni on auto pilot get a lot less out of their degrees ime, and I would def encourage someone in that position to think again.

I’d encourage her to take a year or two to work and save up. I wouldn’t discourage university but it does need to be an informed choice and I’d ideally be wanting to find out what reforms the government are going to make to student loans first.

The deductions are a lot of money each month and the repayment threshold is so low! She needs to know that the student loan deductions won’t stop her from being able to afford to rent a basic one bed flat on a full time minimum wage - right now, that’s very difficult. Rents are high, wages are low, graduate jobs are harder to get, food prices are increasing, so is council tax, energy bills, petrol, etc.

I was told the student loan deductions wouldn’t be noticeable because I’d be earning enough money for it to not be a big deal. Like a phone contract coming out of my wage each month I was told. Wrong! I definitely notice them and I need that bloody money because although I’m earning more, the housing and cost of living crisis means I can’t afford to save, can’t afford holidays, etc. I don’t have the financial stability I was told a university education and professional job would provide me with.

And universities know this - the support on offer is specifically tailored to help students explore their career options.

Honestly, DO NOT GET INVOLVED.

If her life goes pear shaped, it will be ALL YOUR FAULT.

I know it’s hard but it’s her life, her future, her debt. Just be supportive in the background.

DD chose the wrong uni. I knew it, and made some gentle suggestions, but she had to choose herself.

It’s part of letting them go…

Will you have to help with finances? Does she have any plans other than uni?

It will be her debt, so her choice.

As long as I had sat down with her and clearly explained how the current system works, and she understood that even if she doesn’t earn enough to trigger the repayments the interest will continue to accrue, then it really is up to her.

Ds graduated last year. He had a paid internship each long vacation, then another one immediately after graduating, and is now working. I’m 56 and he’s already paid more than me. So I’m a fan of university. The graduate job market is tough but so is the school leavers job market. Your dd doesn’t have a plan for that either, presumably. I would definitely encourage her to study if that’s what she loves and is good at.

One of ds’s friends is not working after graduating, he’s travelling at the moment. He did a non graduate job for a while to earn some money for travelling, and can go back to that. This all seems completely normal to me. Apart from him, every single child I know who graduated last year/this year is working and doing fine.

Admittedly ds did a degree which most people would see as having a strong employment path, but not according to the more clickbaity articles in the media. Remember that in an unbelievably competitive market, the media sell anger and worry, not reassurance.

I get this.
I'm a teacher who helps lots of kids get into uni, but whereas it used to be pretty much all of them, now a number are thinking of other options.

I went to uni. Dh didn't. It feels wrong to be the first in my fault to go to uni and then deny the dc the chance. But where I live, many people earn v well without degrees. Having said that, much of it is because of male dominated industries that require engineers- and my dc do not veer that way.

The holy grail is a degree apprenticeship- but you need at least a vague career plan for that. Dc1 wants to do an academic subject with theoretically lots of career options, but he'll need to be more career savvy (unlike i was) if he doesn't end up teaching it. Dc2 is at the stage where being a dr is the thing to say. But I'm not convinced.

It's her decision but a lot of 18 year olds don't seem to appreciate that this is a loan that they, not mum and dad, will be paying for decades.
Perhaps you need to sit and have a discussion about the different options and the career implications.

1. Degree at home based uni. Less debt because no maintenance but you still have to pay off tuition fees.
2. Degree away from home More independance but possibly a much bigger student debt.
3. Don't go to uni - either find an alternative path into work, work for a charity for a year or defer until you really know what you want to do and what degree you need. Or get a job and apply later to offset some of the cost.
4. Find an apprenticeship or industrial sponsorship.

Lots of students forget that you don't have to go to uni the Sept after getting your A levels.. An increasing number apply to UCAS the following year once they have their results. ( Schools don't like it because it affects their data for League Tables and Ofsted .As long as you do something useful with the 12 months it won't count against you and the experience gained might actually enhance your CV.)

I don’t work in the field of my degree but having a degree has been useful when applying to jobs and I have since studied a postgraduate qualification through work in a relevant topic. Has she considered a degree apprenticeship?

As far as the loan goes, think of it as a graduate tax. I know Martin Lewis says it isn’t. But it’s one way to think of it.

Students often find their plan at university. She doesn’t need to have every step figured out.

if she doesn’t go to university, what are you suggesting she do to gain skills or certifications that will provide a living wage?

I wouldn’t be encouraging it
if she went to go and study subjects xy and z to get a qualification that would lead her to a job in that field she would reap the benefits of the investment
going to uni because you like learning she’ll end up like the large amount of people saddled with debt and a degree they don’t use in run of the mill jobs earning the same money as the rest of us

But what about the £6000+ per year parents are supposed to pay if they’re only eligible for the minimum loans. You don’t think parents should have any say?

Couple of things - it’s all good and well to say it’s DDs debt, but considering what she can borrow is based on parental income, there is an expectation of parents paying the difference, if you aren’t on minimum wage OP you will probably have to make a financial contribution. You do need to be on board with that.

Also - while th graduate job market is tricky right now, the school leavers is worse. Because there aren’t many graduate roles available, your DD with just A levels will be competing for jobs against people with a degree, and possibly work experience in uni holidays etc.

OP I think you are totally right to challenge her on whether investing three years at uni on a course that wont lead anywhere is the right decision. I did a geography degree and had no plans post degree. I would never want my kids to do the same in the world we now live in with graduate roles on the decline, increasing costs and the rise of AI. Is spending three years out if the job market while building up debt, really a good idea for her?

Read this (and suggest she does too)

https://www.thetimes.com/article/70144f6d-a94a-446d-94d2-0f76dc009140?shareToken=0052f62225c06ba0076c2b24c70b7e2a

And this

https://www.thetimes.com/article/da46d6d7-1255-4bce-8140-18b33d1603f7?shareToken=d9fcd64a6a2dc7b95fc904ce4d862d10

YABU she’s academic and loves learning

its her choice

without a degree she will hit a ceiling in her career beyond which promotion can’t be reached

But potential future earnings are very relevant when thinking about student loan repayments. If she's likely to end up in a career/profession where she earns just over average wages, i.e. around £50-£60k p.a. on average, she'll probably be paying student loan repayments for all her working life, probably adding up to 2 or 3 times the amount borrowed. If she ends up in a low paid job (or part time) earning under the threshold, she'll pay hardly anything back (subject to fiscal drag on the threshold). If she's a high earner, say £100+ on average, she'll pay the loan back a lot quicker, with less interest, so will repay less overall.

Also consider what other job prospects she'd have without a degree - maybe very limited if she's academic and doesn't get a degree as that tends to suggest she may not be cut out for practical jobs so may end up basically on minimum wage kind of jobs for life.

I do think she needs to think carefully about what kind of work life she expects to have, what career, etc., then work backwards to see whether a degree is needed or beneficial to do that.

This 100%. I was told the repayments would barely be noticeable but it isn't true at all. A couple of hundred coming out of your paycheque every month really does make it harder to do things like pay your mortgage and save/invest. DP and I are thinking about children but of course we have less money available for nursery fees thanks to our student loans.

OP, I think waiting a year or two to see if the government reforms the system in some way is really sensible.

What about the open university, my son decided to work with the students of his old school, must of enjoyed it, decided to do a maths degree at the open university.
He was able to continue working at the school whilst studying, he is now a senior teacher with no student debt.

I wonder if she will be better waiting a year or two and deciding what she fancies as a career, then study that subject? I didn't go until I was 23, but I had decided my path by then and had done a little work in the industry so was sure.

Doing a degree is nearly always worth it, as it's not just about education, but doing a degree in the field that a person wishes to work in makes better financial sense and better chance for the future.