I just wouldn’t allow my child to do that… AIBU

[Dumbo18]

2 very strong willed kids who don’t really care about consequences and can get very emotional - angry, sad, happy just big emotions really. We often find daily life can be a battle especially with the 4 year old (7 year old can be just as bad) not really looking for advice as I’ve read countless threads on the subject so have seen and tried it all but here is where I don’t know if I am being unreasonable (maybe more am I missing something) 4 year old was refusing to brush teeth at bedtime, had to be done not an option especially as she had cake for pudding. Would absolutely not do it and I could hear in my head lovely people off this site saying well I just wouldn’t have that she would have no choice etc and it got me thinking how on earth would you just not have it?? Force her mouth open- absolutely not. Refuse to read her a book- tried, no tv in the morning- tried, calmly explaining why it’s important- tried, shout- tried. She brushed them in the end so not looking for advice more just an answer on if you say I wouldn’t allow that what is it that you do? Not only with teeth brushing but daily life. I think it’s easy to say I wouldn’t allow that when you are the parent of a child who does what they are asked, responds to consequences etc.

Visual cues and timetables are less demand, and easier to follow for children with cognition limitations.

My 2 had ADHD
Showing them how if you don’t clean your teeth bacteria makes hard crust in your teeth and you get tooth ache.
Then if you leave it your teeth will fall out.

Then it costs thousands to get new teeth implanted

I found appealing to the idea that brushing teeth would save them money.

OP I remember that stage. Two of mine were/are so strong willed I used to be exhausted all the time. They're all teenagers now, which brings its own challenges. But what I found was consistency was the key. It didn't work at first, and sometimes it didn't work at all, but they got there in the end. I think MN is full of posters who say 'I just wouldn't tolerate it'. Take it with a pinch of salt, and keep on keeping on.

It’s true. I think though when you’re at a low ebb yourself it’s hard to find the motivation to find things that work.

Both mine have been very tricky characters at the sort of two and a half to three and a half - well, I’m saying that, I’m in the thick of it with DD at the moment and I’m hoping to god it’s a phase! - and as much as we did brush teeth and we did have a bedtime routine and we do have swimming lessons (my non negotiables but fortunately both mine like swimming anyway) there were/are times I’ve felt helpless to deal with some horrible behaviour!

Mine had adhd and wouldn’t have associated pictures with brushing teeth. They would be pictures on a wall
Cognition limitation wasn’t their problem. Actually feeling like brushing their teeth was

Okay, I’m not sure how they would help your specific children, but they do help others with different neurodiversity or need.

It’s a sensory issue in our house, so communication aids wouldn’t help. For us it was a case of getting a softer toothbrush and strawberry flavour toothpaste (which he still uses at 9), and reinforcement that it’s a necessity so will happen.

That won’t be the same for everyone. Some people would need pictures or communication aids, and that’s how/why they would help.

@SleeplessInWherever tourettes is a common comorbid especially if he is adhd as well? Getting to diagnosis was a palaver as to begin with Neurology just said 'autistic kids have tics and stims'... lovely diagnostic overshadowing. After a while the tics were SO severe they created safety issues and we were seen by a different paediatrician for sonething unrelated who saw them and saud urgent referral to paediatric neurologist.. who saw him and said urgent mri, lumbar puncture, ecg, genetic testing... we had a lot to rule out before getting tourettes diagnosis the also discovered he has 'unusual plumbing' to his brain but they dont know what the clinical significance of that is...

Anyway Tourettes Action are really good. Have free resources and free 'training' which is really useful. For is the key is reducing anxiety as that reduces the tics. But as you know reducing anxiety is incredibly hard.

And yes my lines were VERY different for my other children. Honestly younger me would have been much smugger and more sure of parenting.
Statistics are suggesting one in 5 autistic children are likely pda with variations on HOW pda, as it is a spectrum. My sons is definitely hugely impacted by his sensory processing issues.

We are still learning so much about ND, how brains wirk, nervous system interactions etc and child development and our understanding of it has come so far since my elder kids were little even. Its all good just amazes me when I see lots of black and white views and they will do X. There is room for nuance and understanding, humans are complex and children are no exception to that.

My saving grace is even before I had kids I found all this stuff really intetesting, my own autistic adhd brain means I will hyper focus and learn all I can and continue to do which is good for professional development as well as my own child. Having only recently got the tourettes diagnosis its one I am still learning about. Assuming you have seen Iswear? If not its on amazon prime

Both of mine are ASD / ADHD and teeth brushing is also an absolute must in my house too. No it's and buts.

My children's lovely healthy teeth are a huge source of pride for me, I know many parents whose children have needed fillings / had teeth removed due to poor oral hygiene, I hate the thought of that happening to one of my DC

I remember when my youngest was about two and he wouldnt get dressed. He was due a pre school so he needed to get dressed. He screamed shouted etc etc, it took about an hour but he got dressed. Its soooo annoying but sometimes just standing your ground on things that matter I suppose.

I know where you are coming from though. My youngest is super fussy, at two/threee years old he was even worse and I lost count of how many times I was told 'he will eat if hes hungry'.....no Karen, he literally wont!

Possible additional idea if she point-blank refuses, you let her know that that’s fine on that occasion, but then she misses the next two puddings as a consequence. If it happens again it’s three puddings and so on. Once she others eating a pudding and she is not allowed, she might change her tune but there does need to be a consequence to her actions in my opinion. Just an idea, good luck!

child with ASD PDA here .
it was awful and no one would help me .
screamed , kicked me , tried to kick the dentist when a check up was done .
i ended up just giving her new toothbrushes all the time ,different flavour toothpastes , I put toothpaste on and she sort of chewed it a bit and moved it round her mouth .
our dentist at the time ( we didn’t know she was autistic back then but we did know she had disabilities) said “ not to worry too much she will come round to the idea and she will let me look “
well that didn’t work and she had to have a referral to a specialist dentist 🦷 and a LOT of treatment under anaesthesia.
lucky her adult teeth came through ok

I always find it interesting reading these threads as there are so many posters who really can’t seem to comprehend the experience of others. And understand that all kids are different, including those with SEN.

My DS is autistic and has ADHD but I’d certainly never assume all kids with the same diagnoses are like him as they’ll all be different.

My son has no ability at all to understand rewards and consequences, they mean absolutely zero to him. He can very occasionally be reasoned with but generally as he can only see things from his perspective and believes he is always right, it is very difficult!

He can be very, very violent. The thought that I could physically make him do anything is laughable - I’d be bitten, punched etc. I’d not be able to get close enough to pin him down to brush his teeth. If he’s adamant that he’s not doing something then there’s no way I can make him.

Luckily, with routine and careful use of language and just enough choice involved, we get most things done eventually. I trim his hair and clip his nails in his sleep as it’s the only way (sometimes only 1 nail per night).

DD can be quite the stroppy tweenager but at least we can use “normal” parenting techniques with her and get her to do what she’s told.

Musical electric toothbrush??

I have one with ADHD who has the inner strong-willed decision maker thing.

He responds to natural consequences much much better than punishment - arbitary punishments like losing screen time just make him feel like I am being mean to him. So, when he was refusing to brush his teeth I said calmly "If you won't brush your teeth then you can't eat sweet food because your teeth will go rotten".

Took them both to costa (toothbrush in bag) and only allowed him water. Let him have a strop. Just kept repeating "You can't have sweet food because you have decided to stop brushing your teeth". Once he decided that he would brush his teeth then he brushed them in the costa bathroom and I got him his costa.

But, you have to be willing for them to call your bluff - he would have been allowed to only have water and then not brush his teeth if he had preferred to make that choice........

I had this . I just sat and waited and said that's fine we'll do it when you're ready. If I don't have time I will use bribery as an absolute last resort. At that age they wanted stories so I would say if we don't do it now we won't have time for 3 stories. I've also seen advice about making it fun eg toothbrushing song on YouTube. I have never let them not brush their teeth and I think if you let it go once you'll make life more difficult in the long run if it a boundary you want to enforce.

🙄 I bet you have one perfect angel child….

It’s hard for people to imagine a kid that just doesn’t care, about anything. The only thing that would work, would be violence (and even then it can be hit and miss), but I doubt anyone would seriously advocate for that.

@CoffeeCakeAndALattePlease yes this they are all different. For my household I have small autistic, pda , adhd, tourettes plus other needs he needs declarative language,,pace techniques, coregulation, everything is a process and a lot of novelty hooks but familiarity wtc.

My 4th son needs clear, consistent plain language. Instructions, step by step. Routine, no changes to that.

My daughter needs consistency but not quite as structured a bit more flexibility and gentler language etc.

My elder 3 needed Routine, consistency, explanations, but no 2 took more work than 1 or 3. They are all autistic, 3 are also adhd. But very different profile of needs and levels cognitive differences for them. There are so many variables.

Juggling the different needs as a solo parent household is HARD. Especially as how I need to talk to two of them can trigger the youngest even if its not directed at him.

It does mean I am very aware what works for one child can simply not work for others.

Oh this is what works for me me sometimes.
or other times I ask him who do you want to brush your teeth , mummy or daddy as Soemtimes he just needs to be the one deciding/in control. Sometimes I have to hold one of favourite teddies like his Teddy is the one brushing his teeth. Soemtimes I just have to do it against his will because we are getting ready for nursery and are running out of time for bribes etc

Take her to the dentist and get them to explain the consequences of not brushing!

Op are you me?? Some of the comments on here are absolutely infuriating as every child is different maybe your kids didn’t dig their heels in. My 7 year old is Audhd I only have to raise my voice and I’ve got his attention he’s very sensitive to being told off. My youngest is neurotypical and he just laughs. I have had so much trouble with him today. And I am exactly in your position he obviously just doesn’t respond like ‘the kids you just have to look at’ (wtf do you beat them or something?)
Tomorrow I’m going to cut out everything but 3 meals and ensure that every boundary I’ve put in place is followed even if it takes all day. Which it will. I asked on the parenting forum for tips and one person replied and told me he wasn’t a normal 4 year old and that’s awful
behaviour. Thanks lol.

Breaktime for kids toothbrushing videos on youtube. No SEN here, but mine were an absolute pain at toothbrushing at that age. So irritating, they knew it was compulsory and also why it is essential.They do grow out of it, and don't need to watch those videos forever. It got us through the bad phase though.

We had such a fab dentist. She got down on the floor of the waiting room and said to DD, let's play dinosaurs. While the roaring was happening she looked in her mouth...

We also encountered a nurse who tried holding her down and putting eyedrops in.

Complete hysteria till the consultant asked what songs she liked and sang her one to the accompaniment of his "magic" light up keyring.

Once again some kids just don’t care, especially about “in the future “ consequences. You could have the dentist, the Pope and the ghost of the Queen explaining until the cows come home.

I say if they don’t clean their teeth they’ll get holes in them. That seems to encourage them to do it