I just wouldn’t allow my child to do that… AIBU

[Dumbo18]

2 very strong willed kids who don’t really care about consequences and can get very emotional - angry, sad, happy just big emotions really. We often find daily life can be a battle especially with the 4 year old (7 year old can be just as bad) not really looking for advice as I’ve read countless threads on the subject so have seen and tried it all but here is where I don’t know if I am being unreasonable (maybe more am I missing something) 4 year old was refusing to brush teeth at bedtime, had to be done not an option especially as she had cake for pudding. Would absolutely not do it and I could hear in my head lovely people off this site saying well I just wouldn’t have that she would have no choice etc and it got me thinking how on earth would you just not have it?? Force her mouth open- absolutely not. Refuse to read her a book- tried, no tv in the morning- tried, calmly explaining why it’s important- tried, shout- tried. She brushed them in the end so not looking for advice more just an answer on if you say I wouldn’t allow that what is it that you do? Not only with teeth brushing but daily life. I think it’s easy to say I wouldn’t allow that when you are the parent of a child who does what they are asked, responds to consequences etc.

I used to have a stand off with my daughter every time. I think it’s a power battle more than anything. Thankfully she’s stopped now but when you’re running late it’s really not funny. I mostly went with distraction, threats and bribery. Now she’ll just brush them without being prompted. You do what you have to to get by.

I don't know why people are lumping ASD and Adhd together as reasons why children won't brush. They are completely different conditions! I'm not sure why being adhd would make a difference?

I guess it depends if it's recurring issue or not. As a one off I would probably do the same as you OP.

But when our youngest was refusing to brush her teeth for a while (she was 2 so also easier than with a 4yo), we absolutely hold her down, mouth opened and brushed her teeth. It passed, like everything else.

That's one of the very few non-negotiable we have though, with getting dressed, eating your veggies, and out of the door when it's time to go. We are fairly flexible with the rest.

I seem incapable of disciplining my child by one post I’ve wrote on mumsnet, you my friend are the reason I love this place 😂 anyway… I don’t have a crystal ball so had no way of knowing that hours after the party she would refuse to brush her teeth. Wouldn’t life be great if we could see into the future! I cannot stop living life with my kids because they are strong willed and sometimes non compliant. Should we live for the next 14 years with no friends parties, days out etc?
Everyone has their own experiences and opinions which is completely normal (although not everyone can see that) but I do stand by the opinion of unless you have a child who is unfazed by rules, consequences etc then you don’t fully understand which I will admit was me 4 years ago!
Anyway teeth got brushed eventually not really through anything I done but because she decided she wanted to, I’m sure in years to come I’ll be happy to have such a strong minded confident daughter

They're actually not, since quite often they're comorbid and there's a lot of overlap. Quite a few children with adhd have sensory processing differences for example. I will agree though that in our case, it was the child with autism rather than the child with adhd who caused us the most angst over teeth cleaning.

I think you could be right, I’m hearing mumsnet voices far too often. Hopefully my daughter starts to hear them too and brushes her teeth when told next time, seeing as it’s that easy😂😂

The facts (Equalities Act 2010) say otherwise. But you just carry on with your ableist ignorance.

My possibly autistic DS is exactly the same. It's so disheartening when you have to hold a toddler down every single day for such a simple for everyone else task😔 never tried while he's falling asleep, don't know if it would make it worse or not😅

I very much doubt that.

You take the cake 'for later' and when it was later tell her she wouldn't be getting it unless she agreed to brush her teeth afterwards. Try it next time.

@Dumbo18 I say this by trying to be helpful, I hope I don’t come across as rude. You’ve used the phrase like ‘she decided’ a few times. I’m a teacher, I see this a lot. Parents tell me their child won’t do x, y and z because they have decided not to. There has to be expectations that they will do it and then real consequences when they won’t. I would still give a consequence for that behaviour but I suspect from the way you’ve worded it you are relieved she did it in the end. She needs to know that refusing and taking so long have a consequence.

I advocate for praising the positive behaviour and being very firm with consequences for not behaving. Let her see her sibling have something she’s not having because they brushed their teeth as you’d asked. If she doesn’t brush without a lot of back and forth then again another consequence. I’d try something like getting exciting character toothbrushes but only for the child who is behaving.

There are so many parents who have their children running rings around them.

I used to be a teacher and my “oh dear!” And “no thank you.” are so enthusiastic that when my son knows he’s done something wrong, he says it himself first.

He pulled his curtains down a few weeks ago climbing on his window sill. BANG, Oh dear! 😂

Re adhd the impulsively can mean they struggle to do a task asked, easily diatracted or sidetracked. Also getting started, adhd impacts executive function and starting tasks can be incredibly hard. Or changing tasks, transitions so if they are hyper focused and in the middle of something getting them to stop because actually they need to do X, y, z again can be extremely hard. Time blindness also.

Autism transitions, anxiety, understa dignity depending on the autism and communication issues and capcity etc plus sensory issues.

Pda need for control, heightened flight and fight, anxiety. Sensory issues.

Tourettrs tics interupt what they are doing.

Many of these conditions are co.orbid witg each other and other things ie chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, bowel issue hypermobilty etc all which can impact capacity, fatigue levels, plus issues related to fine and gross motor skills.

And thats just a basic bit about ND issues that can impact. There is more and obviously ND is not the only thing that can impact, there are a myriad of other issues and variatuon on normal development that can and do impact. Plus everyone's capacity varies.

There are so many ises that can impact with children, development and their ability to complete every day tasks. It really is not just about consistent parenting. I am not saying parenting strategies dont help, because some undoubtedly do but there are also children where they just dont or in the case of some things like pda, actually make things worse.

All of my 6 have been impacted in different ways and yet 4 of them were much more compliant or as my gran used to say "biddable" children.

The children in the school I work with have variety of issues that can and do impact.

Plus personality.

So how about my example? I parented with authority and calm, embedded all the non negotiables - vegetables, screen time, teeth cleaning, seatbelts.

I had three children, two were reasonably compliant even if sometimes whinged or had tantrums ("We can stay in the bathroom all night!" type parenting was deployed).
Then my third child, as I say, was a bit more tantrummy and immune to rewards- seemed a little harder work than the others but still complied and every day until age 11 ate veg cleaned her teeth, tidied her room.

Then she had a massive autistic (and adhd actually) burnout and a huge mental health crisis. Nothing else had changed in her physical health, our family situation, our emotional approach, our lives generally. Nothing had changed in my parenting.

But she couldn't manage the overwhelm of having to do the non negotiables.

So I have a counterfactual. I did it all, "correctly"!!! But my daughter COULD NOT RESPOND to that kind of parenting so we had to change so that she would not get seriously unwell.

How do you account for that? Isn't it more likely that the people who are struggling with their children age 4 and 5 have children who find it harder to deal, than your child does? Isn't it more likely we are all reasonably good parents and some have it harder than others?

The real experiment is that violent force has been used on every child to force them into social expectations, at every time in history... until about 40 years ago when the wholesale beating and pushing and smacking of children kind of stopped.

So we are now in a generational.experiment of not violently forcing our young to do stuff. This is a never-before-seen thing in mammalian evolution. The possible results are...

1. children become radically de-socialised and more unhealthy and selfish, society degrades. Turns out there's no better way than clouting them to make happy functional adults- we go to hell in a handcart.
2. children don't do as they are told as much, but other techniques work and they gradually become socialised as they see the point of it, and in another 30 years society is fine and we dont need to worry
3. children don't learn to fit in as they used to on threat of violence. we end up with a more atomised society with people refusing to do stuff, and the children we have now, when adults, will need to work out what to do- maybe restructure some parts of society, or work out how to distribute resources differently.

Haha, I forgot the "no thank you!" It must be universal!

I think they do what you do already. They keep trying until it gets done, especially with non-negotiables like teeth brushing. You didn't allow her to not brush her teeth. Obviously, that's easier with less defiant children though.

I would hold my child down to brush their teeth if they refused though 🤷‍♀️.

Have you tried having a pictorial calendar? If the calendar says that it's teeth brushing time, it's one step removed from you saying it and it very obviously becomes part of the daily routine. You could offer a sticker reward for completing every element on that particular calendar. I would have a separate one for evening bathroom routine, rather than a huge all day one.

These things are harder with elder children. Example my 14 yo didn't want to go to school Friday, didn't see the point it's the last day they don't do much work. Not the point, slippery slope. I can't force her by dragging down the road plus she's probably stronger than me now. I told her she couldn't go to her nans on weekend with her cousin and her phone will be taken away all week. Kept telling her she had to go in. She did go in albeit an hour late. If I let her off this time, she would probably do it again next time. Much harder with a child with SEN I know. I work in a school where kids kick off and refuse to go in it's really hard for parents. If your kid does not have SEN needs then you really just have to be serious with the consequences.

Oh bless ds x

Or you can do it when he wakes up?

I find that she is grizzly for longer if I do it when she wakes up. We had a hectic morning and I needed her up and out of bed

Eventually I hope to do both morning and before bed, but one step at a time 😞

Laughing emoji, x 100.

My 3 Yr old will clamp his jaws together for longer than he can stay awake.
Its voluntary compliance or nothing.

I'd love to be authoritative over my child, but forcing him to do stuff or trying to force him to do stuff just doesn't get us there.

Running away- can physically stop him.
Screaming - various solutions, including joining in, but sticking medicine or a toothbrush in his mouth when he's not up for it.....not a chance.

From another perspective, children are taught at an early age, they can say no to bring touched, my DC took this on board and will refuse anything he doesn't want to do.

Turning stuff into a game works to an extent, high energy challenges also can be a winner, but some stuff, its just no. And often, no thank you because he's very polite abd respectful.

I used to have to cut my autistic child's nails when he was asleep. He swore that nails be cut hurt.

If my child refused to brush teeth they'd literally be marched to bathroom and we would have to wait there until they relent and brush their teeth. But honestly I've never had to do that. They know they have to do it every day twice a day and that it's non negotiable.

Oh girl I understand xx

She can just about cope with her nails being cut now, as long as i'm quick about it. No dilly dallying on her watch! 😄

You mean they comply so you’ve never had to fight, force, wrestle or manhandle.