Gift from Dad - now he wants it back?

[cashquestions]

I've namechanged for this - obvious reasons really - but just need to know what people think.

I'm late 40s, two teen boys. Mum died four years ago and shortly after my Dad, very generously and unexpectedly gave us a sum of money that he said was my mum passing money down to us. It was properly documented as a gift for IHT purposes etc and I've invested it and put it in pensions etc. It's mostly tied up for the long term so that my kids can go to uni debt free.

I am very grateful.

Now my dad has married again. I'm delighted. But he wants to buy a new home with new wife, and he's asked me to 'lend' him a third of the money he gave me to help him get this 'over the line'. He reckons this will be short term while she sells her property - wants my money for three months. But there's no guarantee of course that it will be.

I could SCRAPE together what he wants. It would mean losing ISA allowances, selling investment at a loss etc. of course, if he needed an op or something drastic I would do it. But this is so he can sell a nice home that was my family home and buy something pricier in a 'more upmarket' bit of a very nice village.

I'm sad he's asked. It makes me feel like the money he gave wasn't really a gift, and that he's always wanted control over how it was used.

Should I lend him it? What will happen to our relationship if I don't? Am I unreasonable to resent him asking?

Surely it isn't his to have back if it was originally your dm's?

Like lots of people, @Easterbunnyishotandcross , they had mirror wills leaving everything to each other. So no, we had no right to accept a gift from him at this point. However, he sold some property they had held jointly that she had managed and gave half of the gains to each of us saying it was from our Mum. So it was his to give - I don't know whether this was something they'd always planned to do between them or just his idea. It was certainly kind.

Ah, sorry, in case you think that left him really short - he gave us half the gains between us. He kept the other half.

Honestly you don’t have to look far on Mumsnet (or google) to find stories of widowed parents who remarry and suddenly the family money, including that linked to the dead parent disappears one way or another to the new spouse. Especially after death obviously. It’s a tricky situation for OP but she seems to have sorted it and is not giving/lending the money back to her father. I’m sure her mother would have wanted some of her own assets to be passed to her children. And it’s quite likely that after remarriage OP and her brother will find themselves with nothing when the father passes on. This is what has happened with my own FiL. FiL remarried and has now passed. In theory the house and assets should be split 3 ways between DH, SiL and (new) MiL. But it hasn’t been properly wrapped up legally and for various reasons I think it’s highly unlikely anything will come to SH & his sister. FiL also sold up and moved after remarriage but he downsized and spaffed the cash freed up.

I'm quite surprised at the number of responses on here saying that OP should lend/return the money, even though it's accounted for and would make things difficult.

It was generous of him to give OP and DB a chunk of money when their mum passed, notionally (though not legally) "from mum". But a gift or bequest is exactly that. The giftor is relinquishing all interest and right to it. Gifts with strings attached aren't really gifts.

I think it was ok(ish) for the dad to ask for a loan but he should have accepted that the answer might be no and for good reason. It sounds like he did accept it, a bit grudgingly, after giving OP a lecture on not "locking up" her money because he wanted to still be free to use it. Shame he didn't take his own advice.

I'm maybe being a bit harsh because my MIL used to behave like this. Very well off but any gifts always came with strings. We learned to say no thanks! It just wasn't worth the loss of peace of mind about whether we really were free to manage certain aspects of our own life or not.

@ShamedBySiri 100% you don’t know people until money is concerned. My step mother robbed my dad blind and left him absolutely nothing after he got dementia she changed her mirror will and left me and sister with absolutely nothing . People are evil with money .

Absolutely not. This was your mum’s money, not his money to build a nest with another woman. Surely he has the money to cover half of the value of the house, she needs to contribute too. If you lend it you might never see it

Just say it’s tied in a long term pension pot which you can’t withdraw before you turn 60 and the rest is in the kids’ uni funds which you don’t want to touch

THIS

This!!! is exactly how men think

I’m not being bitter as I’m still happily married and my husband is a selfless angel. I however saw this happen over and over again in my own family, friends’ families etc.

Men don’t always put their children first the way women do. When their wife dies they are lonely and they get close to their children for a while, but once a new woman is in the picture she becomes the most important thing.

At best they just won’t want to spend time with their children as much as before.

At worst they will give all their money to their new wife and their kids will get nothing.

It makes me absolutely sick in my stomach when I imagine my husband remarrying and his new wife inheriting all of the equity which I built for my children. I have nothing against him finding love when I die, but I also do want my hard earned money to go to my own children, not some floozy. I’m sure your mum would have wanted this too.

Just tell him you've spent it. He can't have what doesn't exist. It was a gift. The end.

He has asked, not demanded. It's not uncommon for family to help out, if they can, in this type of situation. But if you can't that's fine, it doesn't sound like your DD will resent it. The issue is that this has thrown up a lot of emotions for you OP. You feel uncomfortable because of the nature of the gift, uncertainty of the arrangement, anxiety about possible impacts if things don't go to plan, probable feelings about the loss of the 'family home'. All of those feelings are valid and a flashing light not to agree. But don't blame your DD for asking, I dont think he's treating it like his money, but more like treating you as a member of the family who he believes would help out if you could.

I agree completely with this. So many put their own comfort and convenience first and may be manipulated into providing everything for their second wife at the potential expense of their children.
I am widowed and even if I found love again I would not be inclined to get financially entangled and to complicate things for my children .

So agree with you both.
I have two old friends whose well off stupid fathers remarried within 2 years of their mothers death.
Neither saw a penny of an inheritance as despite him saying she will look after you all, she gave every penny to her own two children.

His whole family speak of him as a stupid silly old fool.

Another friends father married and neither she nor her 4 siblings were allowed to visit the family home.
They too imagined any inheritance would go completely to her children as she was extremely controlling, even though their father did visit them at their homes.
She died very suddenly recently and now they are all back able to visit him in the family home for the first time in 25 years.
He was undoubtedly in an abusive controlling relationship and is so hugely emotional and relieved to be free.
So sad, but a largely happy ending in that now in his 80's he has the chance to be openly with his children again in their family home once more.

I so admire a few widowed friends whom have made it crystal clear that they would never risk their assets by remarrying.
I certainly wouldn't dream of it.

We are the same my stepmother has a property which I presume is just in her name?
However, my father has been funding her lifestyle for the first 35 years.
If she thinks that Property is just landing in her children’s lap, they going to be in for a shock if she dies first
Although to be fair if he dies first, she can keep it all she’s definitely earned it