Gift from Dad - now he wants it back?

[cashquestions]

I've namechanged for this - obvious reasons really - but just need to know what people think.

I'm late 40s, two teen boys. Mum died four years ago and shortly after my Dad, very generously and unexpectedly gave us a sum of money that he said was my mum passing money down to us. It was properly documented as a gift for IHT purposes etc and I've invested it and put it in pensions etc. It's mostly tied up for the long term so that my kids can go to uni debt free.

I am very grateful.

Now my dad has married again. I'm delighted. But he wants to buy a new home with new wife, and he's asked me to 'lend' him a third of the money he gave me to help him get this 'over the line'. He reckons this will be short term while she sells her property - wants my money for three months. But there's no guarantee of course that it will be.

I could SCRAPE together what he wants. It would mean losing ISA allowances, selling investment at a loss etc. of course, if he needed an op or something drastic I would do it. But this is so he can sell a nice home that was my family home and buy something pricier in a 'more upmarket' bit of a very nice village.

I'm sad he's asked. It makes me feel like the money he gave wasn't really a gift, and that he's always wanted control over how it was used.

Should I lend him it? What will happen to our relationship if I don't? Am I unreasonable to resent him asking?

Not screw them over, but it does sound as if the OP's father's perspective has changed, and whereas previously this money was described as the OP's mother's being passed down to her, now it is money that should still be in play for him to use to start a new life with his second wife. It does make you wonder in what direction his perspective will move next.

This

But that’s simply not true and not what she said at all. He asked to borrow it for 3 months. Yes it could be longer, but at no stage has he suggested, nor has the op, what you’re saying which is the money he wants back as some form of gift.

"I'm sad he's asked. It makes me feel like the money he gave wasn't really a gift, and that he's always wanted control over how it was used." and "he's the one who tied it to the gift - saying 'shouldn't have given you so much earlier' basically. I wouldn't actually have minded as much if he'd just asked for some cash"

Sorry Dad, the money has already been put to good use.

Is he being influenced by the new woman. I’d say that you don’t have it as it’s locked away for 5 years.

Tell him that, sorry. but you can not lend the money unless you seriously lose money in your children's long term investments.

You are not prepared to risk their future.

You are very thankful for the gift and you have invested it very wisely.. It is unwise for you to take it out.

This is a difficult one. It's not your Dad I worry about; it's the third party. It's more about the new triangle of relationships than about "a third" back as loan. This is a hard one. Much will depend how much you trust that your Dad will trust and maintain his "independence" of thinking with regard to what is really your money (albeit gifted to you all those years ago) that involved your mother's sentiments. A difficult one!! I'm a very, very old Dad myself and I'd avoid asking back as "lending" or by any other name (had I gifted anything to any one) especially a third party was involved -- remarried, whatever.

What would he say if you asked to be put on the deeds and they buy you out when the money comes in?

I don't think you should lend them anything but it would be interesting to see what they'd say.

You wont get it back, and in a year or so she'll be after the 2 thirds of what you were gifted.

You sound VERY (over) grateful imo saying he very kindly gave you the money. Of course he should have given you the money! I would think he was scum if he hadn’t. That’s YOUR mums money. It’s now yours. That’s it.

Jesus, you think every spouse who inherits from their spouse, which is most, are scum if they don’t immediately pass it to the kids.

Agree with this, and I am appalled at all the suggestions that OP should lie to her Dad.

Glad you have told him that the money is inaccessible - firstly because you would never have got it back, and secondly because he clearly views it as a pot of his own money that you are just minding for him. His new wife will inherit everything from him - you’d be taking money away from your children to give to his new wife .

If they are waiting for new wife’s house to sell, surely the responsibility for getting a bridging loan is on her?

Perhaps she could get a formal, documented loan from your wealthy brother until her house sells?

@cashquestions no way would I lend it just purely based on the fact she is second wife. Step families soon turn enemies where money is concerned from personal experience. I had a very lovely step mom for 20 years my dad got dementia she robbed him blind upped and left and never spoke to us again. The point is you really don’t know people where money is concerned 👍

Virtually nothing is selling round here, even properties that normally sell really quickly and might not realise as much as they expected. @cashquestions money might not be returned for years, no way of knowing.
No reason to suppose that they house they're after would sell quickly either.

OP accepted the money as it was made clear that it was her mum's share of their savings that she would want to go to her children.

I'm pretty sure that her mum wouldn't expect OP to give him some of it back so that OP's dad could buy an obviously more expensive 'dream house' with another woman. I think that it is crass of him to even ask.

Bit late now but there is a mechanism to change a will, it's called a deed of variation, and it's more tax efficient than yours dad simply gifting his inheritance.

Your father is what my mother would call an Indian giver. This is not a racist slur. But an old fashioned term for somebody who gives you a gift then asks for it back at a later date.

Was there any legal documents or acknowledgement of the gift to you.

I wouldn't give him one penny piece back and also let him know that you feel hurt Un that he has asked for it back.

Do you think this women who he has hooked with is behind all this?

He did say to OP that he'd maybe given her and DB too much...

You have made your decision and explained to your dad why.

It’s the false guilt you have to drop. The gift did not come with conditions. He’s not homeless, in fact, they have two houses between them. It’s not your responsibility to make sure they get the house they want. You have talked through some of his options with him.
You don’t have to feel guilty.

Hi,

I'm sorry you've been put in a horrid position.

So your dad gives you a financial gift attaching the gift to your mother's name when she passed away.

You register the gift correctly for tax purposes and you invest the money.

Your dad meets a new woman and asks for a third of the money back, with a passive aggressive comment of "i shouldn't have gave you so much money".

You now feel torn as to whether to give your dad this money so that he can afford a nicer home.

You really have 2 choices:

Give your dad the money and accept that you're not going to get it back, make your peace with it and move on. If you do get it back great, but to accept that it's a possibility you might not get it back let's you make peace with the situation rather than resentment.

Or tell your dad that you can't give it back because it's invested and financially you can't afford it and risk putting a blot on your relationship with your dad and his new partner. Now I must add that you're dad is at fault for putting you in this situation but you don't know the conversations he may have had with his new wife and he might be trying to please her.

The saying money is the root of all evil is very true and it tests us. I'm not saying you should give it back or keep it, only you can make that decision, you have to ask yourself what's more important in your life, the money or the relationship?

She's put the money aside for them?
And as their mother, her responsibility is to them, not her father.

And she wouldn't have been able to do that had her father not given her money.

Tell him it will be recorded as a loan and that you will incur losses amounting to x which he needs to repay also written in the document.

He can’t really ask for a gift back as it’s from your mother and recorded as a gift.