Gift from Dad - now he wants it back?

[cashquestions]

I've namechanged for this - obvious reasons really - but just need to know what people think.

I'm late 40s, two teen boys. Mum died four years ago and shortly after my Dad, very generously and unexpectedly gave us a sum of money that he said was my mum passing money down to us. It was properly documented as a gift for IHT purposes etc and I've invested it and put it in pensions etc. It's mostly tied up for the long term so that my kids can go to uni debt free.

I am very grateful.

Now my dad has married again. I'm delighted. But he wants to buy a new home with new wife, and he's asked me to 'lend' him a third of the money he gave me to help him get this 'over the line'. He reckons this will be short term while she sells her property - wants my money for three months. But there's no guarantee of course that it will be.

I could SCRAPE together what he wants. It would mean losing ISA allowances, selling investment at a loss etc. of course, if he needed an op or something drastic I would do it. But this is so he can sell a nice home that was my family home and buy something pricier in a 'more upmarket' bit of a very nice village.

I'm sad he's asked. It makes me feel like the money he gave wasn't really a gift, and that he's always wanted control over how it was used.

Should I lend him it? What will happen to our relationship if I don't? Am I unreasonable to resent him asking?

Perhaps but I doubt he's been railroaded into it. He's going to live there too. He's an adult making a choice

That seems reasonable.

But if it could potentially cause you/DS a problem to 'lend' the money, and your wealthy DB could easily lend the whole amount, why isn't that the solution?

Unless he (DF) actually doesn't intend to give it back...

His circumstances haven’t ‘changed’, he’s choosing to buy a house he currently can’t afford. How is that the OP’s problem?

This is an easy one to weigh up.

Your first duty is to your children, not to your parents. You are responsible for your children because you created them and they are dependent on you, to a greater or lesser extent, as they start out in life.

Ditto (from your dad's point of view) his first duty is not to actively put you in a difficult or stressful situation; not to buy his dream home with his new wife.

A university education is an investment in education, future career, earning power etc that can never be taken away from you. A different/nicer house to live in is a desire and much more of a 'nice to have'.

Your mother would undoubtedly vote for this money to benefit her grandchildren's education above upgrading the living situation of her husband and his new wife.

It all points one way and you shouldn't feel guilty about it. Your dad's is being thoughtless and a bit selfish (as well as conveniently stupid and unrealistic about timelines).

This is the point @cashquestions . He has options but they would cost him, lending it back will cost you. Why is it fairer that you bear the cost than him? Especially when you have the money organised to lay your kids way through uni and his is because they ‘want’ (don’t need) a house. For wants he can and will need to suck up the costs. If they’re so confident it will be short term they won’t cost much, right….

It's not the father, it's the new wife I wouldn't trust though, being new and all. An unknown in terms of that level of trust with me

Your first paragraph sums up my father in one!!

Also most people getting old tend to downsize (and maybe give more money to their children or save it for care fees/ emmergency ) rather than on getting a more expensive and better house . It seems selfish and a foolish purchase when you add in all the stamp duty and moving costs . And unnecessary and shortsighted . Because they well need the money for other things . It absolutely is appropriate that he takes the time to think things out rather than rushing for a house they are struggling to afford.

Nope.

Let his new wife 'get them over the line'. They'll have to wait for the sale of her house like everyone else would.

I would think so much less of my father faced with this kind of moral blackmail. How can he even ask? It would make me want to withdraw to an extent and see less of him. I agree with all the PP upthread to say the money is well and truly tied up. I would also add that as the money is invested for the future of his grandchildren you know he would not want to risk their security.

Just say it tied up and you cannot access it.

In my mind it seems as though the gift was partly your DM money, and effectively you will now be gifting it partly to a woman you barely know, and will probably never get back as legally she will own half the house. I would hate the thought of that, and would say no.

But his circumstances have changed years later after the OP's mother died, and he met someone else.

This must be years later.
They have fully dealt with it tax wise.
This wasn't a rash decision of his.

To return now to ask for it to be returned supposedly for a short amount of time, to buy another property is so unreasonable and messy.

I think her father needs to cut his clothe with his new wife.

Gifting money then asking for it back and lecturing the OP is just awful.
Typical man losing his mind and any sense of what is right over a new relationship.

Awful judgement on his part.
So insensitive.
I'm giving you money i think your mum would like you to have.....oh no may i have it back as i need it for a new house with my new wife🙄.
Distasteful IMO.

Just explain it’s not accessible at the moment. Needs 3 months to get it out and obviously the house will be sold by then! or I put it in kids isas which can’t get out until they are 18.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding, but it sounds like the whole situation is poor planning on his part. Your Mum left your Dad the money, he decided he didn't need it, but most likely should have sat on this decision for an awful lot longer than he did, because he gave it to you and your brother, and is now short of cash for himself. Admittedly he wants to spend on a house purchase you are not sure he really needs, bigger house, different location etc, but I can also understand that as a couple they want a fresh start in a new home that is theirs not his. Given he would have been able to afford the new house had he not been so generous with his inheritance a few years ago, I would find it hard not to give it back, but maybe I am just a big softy. When my step-Dad died the assets went to my Mum, the entire estate will pass to the offspring when she dies. She tries to give us cash on occasion but I am forever telling her to hang on to it, because you never know what you are going to need.

No. YANBU. The money was a gift and is now tied up in investments. Leave it there. Your father and his new wife will have to find another way to fund the shortfall.

I feel like you would be unlikely to get it back. I appreciate you said you like the new wife, however, does she have children of her own? Do you or your father know how her finances are planned? Maybe she is planning to gift some money from the sale of her house to her own children? Even if she doesn't have children, effectively handing your Dad a sum for him to pass on to you, almost feels like giving you a gift from her own funds. Or could feel like that iyswim.
So she might object when it came to it. Especially if there are other factors that haven't yet been planned for. A new kitchen perchance. Or a new car to see her through to old age?
Well done talking it through and saying it was all tied up. Stick to that and don't feel guilty.

I realise after reading all the updates that it doesn’t matter now and the decision has been made. But I do find it a little sad that you wouldn’t help your Dad out with this. He very generously gifted you a large amount of money while he was no doubt still grieving and not sufficiently thinking about what his own future might look like, and I’d expect in that time of grief never imagining that he may in the future meet someone to share a new life with, and what that could mean. To not lend him a 3rd of what he gave you for a short time to help him get on with his life, not because you actively need that money now, but rather to let it sit and gain interest in an isa, just seems unkind to me.

It’s already awkward, as you’ve said you won’t help him in case it’s longer than 3 months. I also find it a bit sad that you were so ready to accept the help but won’t even help your father for a few weeks or months.

They’ve been looking at houses that they aren’t ready to buy yet. They need to buy within their own budget and when in a position to sell and move. More will come up.

It sort of feels like they have discussed it between themselves and decided the original gift was too much so claiming some back.

I agree, especially given the dad has approached both children, so when he doesn’t pay either of them back it’s still ‘fair’ because they both ultimately still had the same amount gifted.

I agree. To be totally cynical, the brother alone lending money makes it almost certain he'll get it back whereas if both did, there might be problems.

Why does he need a loan? Surely his wife would be the one taking out a bridging loan.

I don’t know why people do this. Jump to some nefarious conclusion. This man has a good relationship with his children, there is absolutely nothing to suggest he’s trying to screw gnem over.