Ambulances Set on Fire in Suspected Anti Jewish Attack

[StartingStar]

Horrible news that ambulances run by a Jewish charity have been set on fire in Golders Green today.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyj1p49gdpo

AIBU to feel it's got to to with the rise in anti Jewish hate since the allowance of horrible slogans on the weekly marches and in everyday society? What on earth makes people commit such a horrible attack.

I'm 100% with the Jewish community and pray for peace.

St John's Ambulance might be all over the country because there are Christians all over the country in large numbers.

Whereas there are relatively few large Jewish communities.

Just something to ponder.

ETA, this is for @StandingSideBySide

Well one difference is, if there was an arson attack on a St Johns' Ambulance fleet of ambulances, no one would suggest they might have done it themselves for the money. And nor would others rush to that person's defence, calling it free speech.

Wrong

No one knows any facts here on mumsnet yet many are assuming guilt. That is the definition of a witch hunt
Thats a fact !

Very different from judging

An important point to note, @StandingSideBySide . We do indeed live in a free country, however, we are not free to say anything that we want to, and I think you know that, and you must know why.
Also, we are not free to post anything we like on Mumsnet...if you look at the bottom of the comment box it tells you to "follow talk guidelines".

No, it's not the definition of a witch hunt at all. We are not attempting to arrest and execute an innocent person. We are challenging their comments. That is allowed. You disagree, fine. However, if a person's comments breech the MN talk guidelines, they will be deleted.
That is a fact.

No, the post was deleted because it was antisemitic. Do you not see the irony in saying no one should point the finger until facts are known, yet supporting a poster who pointed a finger at the Jewish community despite there actually now being facts available which point the finger firmly away from the Jewish community?

Just because you agree with the posters comments doesn't mean they're not antisemitic. It just means you have quite a bit of self-reflecting to do.

We will not be able to live in harmony while there are still people like you out there willingly supporting people who are pointing fingers at the victims and accusing them of being the perpetrators.

I would expect justice always to run its course, who ever the victim and who ever the perp

The only shame hangs on those who ignore that
The only shame hangs on those who shut down free speech and think that’s OK

this is all obvious from my pp and a smattering of the law of course

I'd argue the shame hangs on the three people that blew up four ambulances and those smearing the victims.

I wonder if East Anglian Air Ambulance get as much shit as Hatzolah do for only operating within East Anglia? Why don't they also operate in Manchester? Disgraceful! 🫠🙄

Unfortunately, there are multiple groups who could be responsible, and you’re right, it can’t be assumed it’s an Islamist attack.

Sorry to disagree with you @EllaDisenchanted but in this case I think we can assume it's a Islamist attack. Although there have been dozen of attacks on jewish premises over the past two years, most recently even on a non Jewish bakery, all in the cause of Palestine, I haven't noticed these other multiple groups setting fire to Jewish ambulances (yet).

You know, I don't think they do. Funny that!

BBC News - Two men arrested over Jewish charity ambulance arson attacks
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3v6rx6dxz6o
I'm just reposting this for those who missed it and/or only get information from tiktok or somesuch. The term antisemitic attack is used clearly. Should there be any doubt.

I’ve read all the posts as they happened and prior to deletions

You say yes
I say no
I say This is watering down the true definition of antisemitism and a slippery slope when people start to do This

You’ll know all This, I assume, but for those on here who are rusty on the subject here’s just a tiny snippet of a large subject.

The IHRA Definition: The IHRA defines antisemitism as "a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews". This definition is used by many governments and institutions to identify and combat antisemitism.

• Preventing Dilution: The IHRA has explicitly cautioned against weakening the term. The term should refer specifically to anti-Jewish hatred.
• other definitions have been proposed, such as the Jerusalem Declaration on Antisemitism and the Nexus Document,

In summary, the IHRA works to define antisemitism broadly to ensure it is not diluted, while critics argue that their specific definition can be misused to "water down" the term's meaning by misapplying it to legitimate criticism .’

Or by applying it to anything people don’t agree with .
clearly!

Well there are Hatzolah chapters worldwide. They operate independently but coordinate with each other. 14 countries with multiple chapters in each. Proportionally to population of Jews worldwide it might be similar to St John’s (though I haven’t done any maths). It’s not just a London thing.

The following is an extract from the IHRA definition of antisemitism

"Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews."

By the IHRA definition you yourself refer to, the comments were antisemitic. That's why they were deleted. The poster was perpetuating stereotypical allegations about Jews not being trustworthy and being in it for the money. In this case the insurance money.

Feel free to cut the crap now.

Thanks Edith but I don’t need to ponder because your post
is all quite wrong

They did not deliberately set up in Christian areas just because they were Christian areas
They set up to train Industrial workers in First Aid !

I was a youth member of St John’s ambulance but not a Baptist and in fact peoples religions, including lack thereof, were never questioned

Peoples religion is completely irrelevant in its running and members

here's wiki on the full early days set up, although this can be found anywhere of course

Followed by a few of the non Christian countries that it is fully established in

‘ St John Ambulance was established across the UK starting in 1877 by the Venerable Order of St John to train industrial workers in first aid. The St John Ambulance Association (1877) focused on training, while the Brigade(1887) organized volunteers to provide first aid and ambulance transport at public events, expanding rapidly through local divisions.

Key Stages in UK Expansion:
Foundation & Training (1877): Set up at St John’s Gate, Clerkenwell, to teach first aid to industrial workers lacking medical access.
The Brigade (1887): Formed in Queen Victoria’s Golden Jubilee year, organizing trained volunteers to attend public gatherings, football matches, and national events.
Expansion (Late 19th-Early 20th Century): The organization spread quickly, providing the first ambulance services in many parts of England.
Military & National Support (WWI/WWII): St John worked with the British Red Cross to provide voluntary aid, expanding its presence through wartime service.
Cadets (1922): Formed to train young people aged 11 to 18, increasing the volunteer base across all communities

In 1968, the association and brigade merged to form the modern organization.

….Key early establishments in non-Christian (or multi-faith) countries included:

• India: Centres were established by 1884.
• Sri Lanka: The service was established in 1906.
• Hong Kong: The Association was established in 1884, with the Brigade following in 1916.
• Malaysia: A presence was established as early as 1908.
• Singapore: St John Singapore has a long history, focusing on first aid training and public duties.
• Middle East: The Order founded the St John Eye Hospital in Jerusalem in 1882 to serve all residents, regardless of race or religion.

Key Regional Contexts:

• Asia-Pacific: St John ambulance services operate in Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Papua New Guinea, and Fiji.
• Africa: Active in nations such as Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Malawi, Mauritius, Nigeria, and Eswatini (formerly Swaziland).
• Caribbean: Active in Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, and Antigua.

The St John Ambulance Association began adapting its training materials and first aid manuals into local languages, such as Urdu, Gujarati, and Tamil, early in its expansion to support local volunteers and industry groups

Thanks
but St John’s isn’t just in Christian communities ( which Edith said it was )
hence my post and the difference

No. That's really not what Edith said. Perhaps read her first sentence again. You appear to have misunderstood.

Agree
but I can multitask

Me too. I'm also ironing and practising my Russian grammar.

I’m aware of all of this and the pp wrote / said etc Nothing of the sort

Hence the very real concern in Governments and worldwide about the term antisemitism being watered down online and elsewhere

Your last line is very rude Humding,
shame you felt the need for that.
Resorting to that level demeans everything you have said which up until now I was finding interesting.
oh well

An interesting article about the history of similar claims and who makes them

https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/bizarre-stupidity-of-the-hatzola-ambulance-false-flag-conspiracy-theories/

Very interesting, thank you, @ErroltheSwampDragon . Some excellent points about the hypocrisy and folly of the wild "false flag" claims. It does, of course, require self reflection. Not all are capable of this. Sadly.

The poster put forward two suggestions of what she thinks happened and they both just happened to be antisemitic suggestions where Jews were at fault. So the post was deleted because antisemitism is against MN rules.

Gaslighting is very 2025, you should probably give it up and stop pretending the poster wasn't being antisemitic.

No I didnt
I just posted quickly to yours but I have

Already debunked the relevant post in a pp