Conflicted after DS hit DD and she fought back and beat him up?

[ForAmpleRobin]

Bit of sibling drama today and I’m not sure if I’m handling it right.

My DD is 9 and my DS is 11. Lately there’s been a bit of tension because she’s actually stronger and faster than him at a lot of things like running and general physical things. DD and my niece have started doing cross country and the girls have been practicing whilst we’ve been out on family walks as well as racing each other. DS is quite competitive and I think it bothers him more than he lets on that DD and his cousin are faster and stronger than him.

They were messing around earlier in the garden doing races and silly “strength competitions” like who can get who on the ground first and DS got increasingly annoyed when DD and DN kept winning. It escalated into him hitting his sister and trying to subdue her but she fought back.
She ended up properly beating him up. DN quickly came and told me about it and then I had to carry him inside and DH took DN home. He is covered in cuts and his bruises are starting to show up.

Obviously I’ve told them that hitting isn’t acceptable, but if I’m being completely honest I also felt proud that she’s confident and doesn’t back down. At the same time I know DS is feeling humiliated by being beaten up by his younger sister and that DN will spread it to the rest of the family. However this would help him learn his lesson!

AIBU for feeling conflicted about this? How would you handle it with both of them? I feel like I don’t know what the best punishment would be? I was thinking of grounding them both for fighting but then DD was in self defence so is it unfair and shall I just ground DS?

They looked at rats fighting!

"Obviously, experimentally manipulating childhood experiences to test for the effects of play is not possible. Thus, the strongest experimental evidence comes from studies of laboratory rodents, especially rats; however, there is mounting evidence from studies of children that is consistent with the findings on rodents.

Play and the laboratory rat"

Why children hit. Rather than studies on rats, try looking at children!

: Is there always a reason kids hit?
A: Nothing just happens! Not all kids hit for the same reasons, but it is typically a learned behavior. Here are a few common reasons kids may hit:
1. They don’t yet know how to communicate their feelings. When children are upset, but are still working on how to use their words to say what their feeling, this frustration can sometimes lead to hitting.
2. It’s a means to get what they want. Your child may simply see hitting as a means to an end. For example, if your child’s sibling, friend or classmate has a toy they want and your child physically obtains the toy by hitting or grabbing, they have learned a lesson. They hit or behaved aggressively and got what they wanted!
3. They’ve seen hitting modeled by others. If your child sees someone hit or display other aggressive behaviors as a response to frustration or anger, the child learns that’s how those situations or feelings are handled"

@ForAmpleRobin any of these apply to.your 2 children? Why do they hit?

She won and he won't be trying it twice
He might, when he is bigger than he sister and certain that she's the one with cuts and bruises.

I just can't understand any mother happy for an INJURED child. Being hit is not nice and might hurt a bit, but cuts and bruises are serious injuries that are painful for days. Horrible to think that a mum's response is glee at what happened and wanting to punish further rather than wanting to comfort.

The thread title is deliberately goading people. OPs responses don't sound like that of a parent and if they are and this is all true both the DD and DS need social services and safeguarding asap.

That's not to mention that the entire scenario feels suspicious. There's a big difference between 11 and 9 and I find it difficult to believe a 9yr old of any gender would be able to beat an apparently jealous and angry 11yr old boy to the point they can't walk which suggest they suffered significant injury.

Just think for a second and it doesn't make sense, if you're beaten to the point of having to be carried and can't walk (I have been) you'll be in need of immediate medical attention.

You actually sound a terrible parent. If I heard someone say what you have typed on here I would be calling social services.

Firstly why does a 9 yr old have a phone?

Secondly I grew up as 1 of 5 siblings in the 80s and we fought plenty and gave each other the odd kick. Punch, I got a bloody nose once etc etc. but I'm pretty horrified by your attitude here. Kids hitting is fine, one beating the other badly is really off and your apparent preference is really obvious

This is neither harmless nor play fighting

Honestly your family sound insufferable. Family aren't direct competition why do you kids feel that way?

I imagine a few people have reported it to mnhq. I am not sure what you mean, though @Minamonamoo , generate content where?

Your DS was in the wrong for hitting her first. Your DD is in the wrong for retaliating and it went too far. They both need a consequence over the next few days/ as soon as possible. I would not cancel a birthday treat for him.

She can’t know who started it. It’s hearsay. But if you condone your dc being physically injured in your home you are a disgusting, inadequate parent. And yes I did report it last night. I’m actually disgusted this thread is still running. Mumsnet has gone to the dogs. That dc needs child protection.

Yup. I fell for this one hook line and sinker. It's an obvious wind up and should be deleted.

Reminder to question EVERYTHING we read online.

Yep it’s quite concerning. Some sound positively gleeful at the violence. Horrible.

What’s dangerous is it normalises it. It’s telling someone out there it’s ok for one dc to cause physical injuries to another while you turn the other cheek and you can send them to their room or confiscate their phone. Yes it’s likely a wind up. Why the hell are Mumsnet still running it?

I think they're being a bit dramatic and thinking someone is farming the more aggressive responses to post on some tiktok or YouTube videos.

Although I agree something about this thread doesn't add up

A good parent would have nipped the 'strength competitions' in the bud before it escalated to its obvious conclusion. I think being beaten black and blue is probably sufficient punishment for ds and taught him a valuable lesson. Cancelling his upcoming birthday is way over the top.

DD is clearly a hero and should be praised for defending herself so robustly against a male, even though she is stronger than him and bear him to a pulp in the name of self defence. According to the op and half the other posters on this thread anyway. Nobody should be hitting anyone, but it appears to be sociably acceptable for a woman to hit a man.

DD is the one who needs a punishment, and as much as anything ds needs to see that dd is being punished, otherwise the lesson is that the stronger aggressor gets away with it. One day that'll be him at this rate.

@ForAmpleRobingoing to come back and update the thread? Taken on board any of the comments? Or just fucked off after stirring the pot?

Competitive in sports, great

Non proportional violence? Not so much.

Strength competition should be based on similar strength, that’s why many sports based on strength have different categories to ensure competitors are safely matched

and they have a referee and RULES

She’s not, she is younger.

When you say she was beating him, how? This isn't ok and to be honest this is what it is because you have allowed it. Yes your son should not have hit, but beating someone up to be covered in cuts and bruises is not self defence - it's an attack. Do you not like your son? It doesn't sound like you do? Why is the punishment for him and not her?

Also the who hit who line is probably quite blurred if the game they were playing was who can get who on the ground it sounds like that would be quite physical/close to attacking each other. I find the way you write your post disturbing to be honest.

sit them down separately and talk to them. Tell your son it’s never okay to hit and subdue his sister and he needs to learn how to walk away when he’s wound up.

Tell your daughter you understand why she retaliated but she didn’t just shove him away, completely lost her temper and beat her brother badly and this is not acceptable. She also needs to stop winding her brother up.

I would punish them both but not spoil your son’s birthday. Make it equal and tell them both together that you won’t tolerate violence.

@ForAmpleRobin

I am not seeing much to be proud of here. Your DD has caused harm to her brother to the point when you had to carry him in to the house and he is covered in cuts and bruises- and you are proud of her? You seem more annoyed with your DS than your DD- why is that? Both totally in the wrong, IMHO.

I’d be really concerned that your DD went so far in retaliation. I’d be annoyed with DS too, and upset that he had been physically aggressive towards his sister, but her behaviour would be more of a worry, if I’m honest, as it sounds like she lost control a bit.

I don’t think your DS should get a harsher punishment than your DD. Yes, he started it and deserves consequences for that (and if he has been injured,
and by your own estimation humiliated, I’d argue that’s a consequence there), so a punishment of some kind is needed. He absolutely should not be hitting his sister and he needs to understand that. However, if you make his punishment worse than the sister who has actually harmed him, I think that would be grossly unfair in a way which is likely to stick with him. And potentially impact his relationship with you and his sister. It could appear that you condone her actions, whilst condemning his.

Your DD, on the other hand, does not deserve praise for beating her brother up. Self-defence is only ever allowed to be proportionate to that needed to defend yourself- straying beyond that boundary can be viewed as assault by law (obviously not saying it would be in this case, given their ages). It sounds like she stepped way, way over the line of self-defence given she caused notable and multiple injuries to her brother. I’d be horrified and in no way proud of her. If she did this to another child- even one who started it- there could be serious consequences for her. She needs to understand how wrong her actions were and that self-defence is one thing, but what she dis was an entirely different matter.

How would you react if another child hurt either of them to the extent your DD hurt your son?