To raise a safeguarding issue with church regarding playgroup?

[Bornunderpunches]

my 2.5 year old son managed to escape the church playgroup. I was just chatting to another mum when I looked up and realised he wasn’t in the hall. He can’t have been longer than 20 seconds from when I’d last seen him and I got up and went looking for him, however being heavily pregnant I’m much slower than him at this point. all the doors were left open and when I got to him he had managed to run across the busy road just about 15 metres from the front door of the church. luckily a passer by had got to him and pulled him out of the road. Ive been going to the group for around a year and nobody in particular runs the group and we’re just left to our own devices, the church has no input whatsoever they just let us use the hall. we buy the biscuits and milk and what not, get all the toys out ourselves and put them away etc. When I told the office in a complete state of shock they were completely dismissive of the issue and said how they leave the doors open for mothers and children to easily access the group and acted like it was nothing to do with them. I just feel like such an awful mother and unsure of how to approach the situation because I don’t know whether this would be considered my fault as the church don’t have anyone supervising the group or the church’s fault for not having more in place for safeguarding in the first place.

And again, why does someone HAVE to be blamed?

😂 Are you suggesting Tesco would be responsible if a child ran out onto a road and got hit?

I wasn't aware the church owned roads now

You are responsible at all times for your child when he is in your care.

Well someone has to own them. They might not call it a Sunday School - sorry, that was me. At my local church, a couple of the women take the DC to the hall next door during the communion and get the toys out and maybe do some colouring or some sort of activity. That's what I meant - they are owned by the church. Those women are also responsible for buying juice, biscuits etc. (The church has a safeguarding officer so doubtless those women are DBS checked.)

I go to Rhyme Time at the library - if my child ran out of the automatic doors and something happened to them, would the library be to blame?

This would only be the case if it is a church run playgroup.

it seems clear from the information that op has posted that it is not.

The venue is not responsible for this, their responsibility will be to make sure the hirer of the hall has appropriate insurance and policies (if that).

the responsibility (probably) rests with the committee/leader of the playgroup who op says no longer attends and has (probably) resigned.

No they won't because "they" are not there. The mums sort themselves out. Op can of course ask the other mums to make sure that doors are kept closed or she could put up signs or ask them for permission to put up a stairgate.

But would be totally unreasonable to expect them to carry the can.

This. The church are not supervising your child you are. Yes really annoying about the doors.but go to another group instead ? You cant blame anyone here..

If nobody is running it properly then stop going or organise a meeting to see if people will step forward - most probably won't though.

While you are of course responsible for your child at a play group, the organisers should be putting measures into place to keep kids safe.

When I ran a toddler group with a friend, the main internal doors were always closed, children were not allowed into the kitchen, we kept the ride-ons in a fenced off area so kids couldn't be driven over. The babies were fenced off in a ring of chairs in the corner so kids couldn't run near them.

If there is no organisation, is there any insurance? do people pay to attend? what would the owners of the hall do if somebody got injured?

You are right the doors need to be closed. This is because even if you are watching your child like a hawk, they can just take off and run into the road.

I used to take my dd into a library that had self-opening doors onto a road and I had exactly the problem you described with being heavily pregnant and sprinting after her but she got onto the pavement before I caught her.

In the street, you could have them on reins, holding hands or in a buggy but in a free play area where they are there to run around, it is extremely important to have an additional barrier to the road- even if it's a safety gate that is put there for the duration and then taken away again after the group.

If they can't do that, I'd not go there because this is safety 101 with toddlers who sprint off unexpectedly.

If the inner door handles are suitable, could you use an elastic Bungay cord on them, the sort with hooks? Anyone coming in from outside would be able to reach through and unhook to let themselves in, then re-hook to keep kids safe. Cheap and cheerful.

sorry if it has already been suggested but don’t have time to read whole thread.

You and those like you are the reason there are very few parent and tot clubs, playgroups etc, the joy has been sucked out of everything and paperwork and red tape have replaced it. So many mums are stuck at home isolated because someone demands risk assessments for a church that is open and available for parents to gather. Life is a risk and parents are responsible for watching their own children.

Not at all, the fault here is squarely on the Mum's shoulders.

So I would. My home church has a building onto a busy side street. When I was a child they would leave the main doors open- and the toddler group was in the hall with 2 lots of double swing doors (one at the back of the hall and a set Infront of them). Because of this issue they either have someone sitting on the main doors- or they are locked (there is a bell and a buzzer to let yourself out)....
For them it's a risk because of SEN children that attend...
My husband helps run a different church playgroup and he sits on the hall door every week to ensure that the couple of children who are at risk of running don't run out of the hall into the street....

But the OP knows that this group has nobody volunteering or running it anymore. She even declined to help herself.

So it's not realistic to have non-existent volunteers sit at a door.

The church will have public liability insurance and risk assessments will be part of that.

Sorry but I think you should hope the passerby doesn’t raise a safeguarding concern about you! A 2.5yr old who got across a busy road.. I would report that. Yes the doors should have been shut but ultimately you as his parent should have your eyes on him at all times, it’s a playgroup not paid childcare. Sorry if that sounds harsh, it must’ve been an awful fright and I’m glad he’s okay but this is on you imo.

I know I read an article about how few mums & tots or toddler groups had restarted post covid due to lack of volunteers.
In past women retired earlier or more sahm and would volunteer for this sort of thing.
It sounds like the previous volunteer has left and the church have just allowed it for carry on.
I suspect by you telling the office about the incident it may prompt the church to put a stop to the group.

But being involved in my church safeguarding policy- keeping children who have a SEN need safe is also there responsibility. I have been involved on church and health and safety and they have a duty of care to keep children on their premises safe. Whether this is because of a child who may run on either a Sunday morning or on a weekday mum and tot group- HSE would have questions to ask even if it's implied that mum had responsibility- as she may have a disability even temporary which increases the risk. Having a tot group in a church that has an entrance to the road increases the risk- and they may well be sued if anything happened. At this point the church leadership may be prosecuted under health and safety laws (which is what I have been advised by church of England safeguarding team)....

What's raising a safeguarding going to do?

Talk to the organisers, as others have said, suggest a sign on the door each week so people know it's on and ensuring it's closed.

Maybe all chip in for a baby gate if there's any internal doors

Ultimately your child was under your supervision. If anything is a safeguarding here it was you not watching your child near an open door. Who else did you think was responsible? What did you expect them to do?

You can go ahead and report the church once you've figured out who might be to blame, but it won't amount to anything other than you being as welcome as a fart in a wetsuit, or even the group being stopped.

Absolutely this. Take this up with the other mums who leave the doors open.

Something similar happened to me at a church toddler group. I popped into the next room for 30 seconds to get the buggy and in that time, two daft mums left the church and obligingly held the door open for one-year-old DD as she followed them out into the car park. They didn't hang around - when I got to DD she was on her own. Needless to say, it was a busy time in the car park with lots of cars leaving.

This group did have a leader, so I mentioned it to her, but it wasn't her fault. I should never have let DD out of my sight, I suppose. But I would never have let an unaccompanied toddler follow me out of a building or gated play area. The two mums were friends, so I don't think they each assumed that DD belonged to the other one!

This must have been very scary for you, OP.

I'm surprised they leave the doors open.

The church toddler group I took my dc to (years ago!) always kept the doors closed. When they were opened, helpers at the toddler group would stand by them as say goodbye to people was they left. People were also greeted by the helpers as they arrived and signed in, and payment taken.

I did once lose sight of my little one, panicked, went into the room next door and thankfully he was in there.

It wasn't your fault.

I don't understand how the church can feel happy about the situation of hosting this toddler group but not having supervisors there. Do you pay a fee to attend?

Ok.. but nowhere does the OP mention that the child has SEN?

I actually run a parent and baby / toddler group in my local library. Our organisation rents the room and we have strict agreements with the library that they have no liability during the hours of the group. (Many parent stayed on for Rhyme Time at another room in the library thereafter but that's outside of our hours).

It is usually the same for groups that make use of / rent rooms in churches or community buildings. The group using the facilities are the ones who need to provide the insurance and safeguarding policies.

The issue here is that the OP knew nobody was runnjng the group anymore and wants someone to blame for her misjudgement.

It wasn't the immediate doors that were left open though. The child managed to get out of the room the group was in (closed doors, but he was able to push them open) and then it was secondary doors out of the majn building that were open (that cant be seen from the room).

Assuming lots of people come in and out of the main building for various reasons, it's unreasonable to think they would be closed at all times. Even if they were closed and opportunistic toddler might unknowingly escape if people are going in and out.