To raise a safeguarding issue with church regarding playgroup?

[Bornunderpunches]

my 2.5 year old son managed to escape the church playgroup. I was just chatting to another mum when I looked up and realised he wasn’t in the hall. He can’t have been longer than 20 seconds from when I’d last seen him and I got up and went looking for him, however being heavily pregnant I’m much slower than him at this point. all the doors were left open and when I got to him he had managed to run across the busy road just about 15 metres from the front door of the church. luckily a passer by had got to him and pulled him out of the road. Ive been going to the group for around a year and nobody in particular runs the group and we’re just left to our own devices, the church has no input whatsoever they just let us use the hall. we buy the biscuits and milk and what not, get all the toys out ourselves and put them away etc. When I told the office in a complete state of shock they were completely dismissive of the issue and said how they leave the doors open for mothers and children to easily access the group and acted like it was nothing to do with them. I just feel like such an awful mother and unsure of how to approach the situation because I don’t know whether this would be considered my fault as the church don’t have anyone supervising the group or the church’s fault for not having more in place for safeguarding in the first place.

Watch your kid!!

You can’t blame other people every time something happens - if they take responsibility for your kid and something happens then sure but you were the supervising parent and the church let you use the hall and you knew of the doors being open already….

There’s a set of swing doors before the outside door which can easily be opened. The outside doors can’t be seen from the hall so I had no idea that someone had left it open

It’s obviously not a place where you can take your eyes off your child, or “get chatting”. You have to decide if that’s a group you want to go to.

If the church just rent the hall to whoever runs the group then it’s nothing to do with them.

if the group is actually run by the church then it is.

either way these groups are usually run on a you retain responsibility for your own child basis.

If you run it yourselves then you need some better safeguarding measures in place, or rules saying you all watch your own kids. I don't see how it's the church's fault any more than it would be the park ranger's fault if your kid ran off at the park?

So you're child got through the swing doors, and the next set of doors (that someone left open in error presumably) and across the street?

Do you expect the church to hire a doorman or something?

This isn't a paid childcare facility. The ones is on the parents or caregivers to mind their own kids.

You are responsible for your child.

Sorry to be blunt, but you were chatting to another mum and stopped watching your DS, who then ran off 🤷‍♀️ I assume you’re feeling quite guilty about it, and it’s often easier in such situations to look outwards and find someone else to blame rather than reflecting that actually, you hold personal responsibility for your son almost coming to harm. Fortunately, he didn’t. Focus on that, and consider whether you’re happy to continue going to this group if you’re unable to properly supervise your child when there’s no one else to do it.

Yep, you're there to supervise your own child; you can't blame them for not doing so when you didn't. It's a nice bonus to be able to chat to other parents over a cup of tea and a slice of cake, but the primary reason for being there is to watch and be responsible for your young child.

This sounds like a 'no good turn goes unpunished' kind of scenario to me - if the church keep getting complaints and accusations of carelessness, they may well just turn around and say the group can find somewhere else to meet instead.

There’s no one running it, they asked me at one point to put my name down for it and I refused. Since the last lady left in September there has been no one else technically in charge of the group, it’s not rented by anyone and they don’t take charge of it

OP, both the playgroup and the church should have a SG policy and designated lead. Likely to be worth reviewing both.

FWIW, I'm leaning towards no responsibility of the church but think there is some argument for a degree of responsibility from the playgroup to ensure reasonable steps taken in terms of safety.

Exactly this. I’m a member of a church that has a lot of room lettings. When groups hire our rooms they are responsible for safeguarding. We take the view that we are responsible for checking that groups have safeguarding policies in place but that might be considered good practice rather than legally required. Your group should lock the doors and you just supervise your child.

I would suggest that that is poor practice. But do be prepared for playgroup to cease functioning as the SG responsibility is not to be taken lightly.

The doors weren't open, then, were they? The swing doors into the hall? Those were closed but unlocked and your child left by going through them.

I appreciate it must have scared the life out of you!

It's not the church's responsibility to keep external doors closed when there are internal doors you can keep an eye on.

So you can’t see if the outside door is open from the room you’re in? How do you expect anyone else to? Should they act like doormen?

sounds harsh but ultimately your child is your responsibility. You were just chatting and didn’t notice your child leave. That’s not anyone’s fault but yours unfortunately. Even if the outside door stays closed, there’s still a huge chance a child can slip out.

So who unlocks the Church, turns on the heating? Buys the tea and milk? There must be someone running something? Who advertises that it is on? Who locks the place when you leave? Or is it a church open 24hrs? Is the vicar there on the playgroup with you? Who says you can use the place?

Perhaps a word at the next session to remind parents to shut the outside door when they come and go? Could a toddler open that door though?

What do you expect the outcome of raising a safeguarding issue to be? They can't lock the door due to fire safety. A doorman?

Edited for typo

It's not as simple as saying it's the OP's kid and therefore she is responsible.

There still needs to be proper policies etc in place to ensure that even suitably supervised kids cannot get out of the building and place themselves in danger.

So whom exactly ought to have been putting these safeguarding measures in place and watching your child?

It’s basically like going to the local park - there’s no playground supervisor on a life guard stand overseeing the general area - you are the one who is to do a dynamic risk assessment of your child’s surroundings and watch them like a hawk in unfamiliar surroundings which are susceptible to change

Sorry op. I took my baby to a group that just met up a church room and never would i have considered any of that to be the church’s responsibility.

Exactly... anyone could have been coming in and out of the front doors for a variety of reasons, some unrelated to the group.

Even if the front doors were closed an opportunistic toddler will find a way out at the first sign of an opening.

YANBU.

I used to help out at a toddler group I attended in our church hall. I didn't run it but the lady who was overall in charge was lovely. We had a shared understanding of the importance of doors and having a system in place that meant no little people could escape but that adults could open the doors quickly and safely in case of fire.

I'm also on the committee for a local community centre. Safeguarding is important to us and our hall booking forms make clear who has responsibility when people hire the hall. On our main entrance there is a magnet door that an adult can open easily by reaching up.

I'm also a school governor and we have some children at the school who are absconders. They want to escape and they try to escape and they will bolt for it. The school learning environments aren't like when we were at school with the whole class all in one room with a closed door. So these children need a designated adult at all times.

You are right to bring it up and I'd be disappointed with that response. As someone else has mentioned, churches will have safeguarding leads and that's the person you need to talk to. It could be that the person you initially approached is ill-informed and could benefit from some training.

I can tell that you're coming at this from a "I don't want this to happen to anyone else ever again, what can we put in place to stop it" place so I don't understand why they've not engaged with you more so far.

Finally, I am really glad that you had a good outcome and your child is safe. It must have been terrifying.

We do lots of church playgroups. The doors are always unlocked for fire safety reasons. Keeping the children inside and supervised is always the parents responsibility. It sounds scary and I’m sorry it happened but the responsibility to watch him was yours.

It's a bit ironic that you are looking for someone to blame but were not prepared to help with running the group when you were asked. Running groups like these is a big responsibility and there is work involved in making sure things are safe. If the church isn't organising the group, the parents/carers need to be willing to chip in effort to make it work (safety considerations and other aspects too), or else the group may well fold.

The fact that people on here are being so bloody minded about it being your responsibility symbolises everything that is wrong with the world at the moment. Yes of course it's your responsibility but in a community everyone looks out for each other and creates rules and practices to keep everyone safe.

I wouldn't go in stroppy and all guns blazing but I would contact the person whose name is on the booking - or the person at the church who orchestrates the bookings - to discuss it. Or is there a WhatsApp group or similar for the playgroup? Maybe start a discussion on that. Approach it from a friendly concerned mum angle not a legal safeguarding angle because I think that would achieve nothing. If nothing is agreed I wouldn't return because a playgroup your kids can escape from is completely pointless. The WHOLE POINT of playgroups is that you can chat with other mums without worrying your kid is going to die if you take your eye off them for a second. It's to allow parents to feel like human beings rather than childcare slaves. It must've been very shocking and I'm sorry about it.

If the church are doing it for free they may just stop making the hall available if they have to provide staff to check the doors get shut. If you want the doors shut someone in the group will have to do it. Are the doors also access to the church?