To raise a safeguarding issue with church regarding playgroup?

[Bornunderpunches]

my 2.5 year old son managed to escape the church playgroup. I was just chatting to another mum when I looked up and realised he wasn’t in the hall. He can’t have been longer than 20 seconds from when I’d last seen him and I got up and went looking for him, however being heavily pregnant I’m much slower than him at this point. all the doors were left open and when I got to him he had managed to run across the busy road just about 15 metres from the front door of the church. luckily a passer by had got to him and pulled him out of the road. Ive been going to the group for around a year and nobody in particular runs the group and we’re just left to our own devices, the church has no input whatsoever they just let us use the hall. we buy the biscuits and milk and what not, get all the toys out ourselves and put them away etc. When I told the office in a complete state of shock they were completely dismissive of the issue and said how they leave the doors open for mothers and children to easily access the group and acted like it was nothing to do with them. I just feel like such an awful mother and unsure of how to approach the situation because I don’t know whether this would be considered my fault as the church don’t have anyone supervising the group or the church’s fault for not having more in place for safeguarding in the first place.

I think we‘re conflating several things here.

AIUI, the OP wasn’t planning on complaining. It was more making the premises owner aware something had happened which could be avoided with child gates.

The type of booking is also not clear, but it sounds like the playgroup is a church initiative rather than someone paying £20 for an hour’s use of the premises. I‘d be interested in any advertising they do (St Mungo‘s Stay and Play), as I think if there had been a bad outcome, they would be seen to have some ownership of the event and some liability. And, their insurance policy will involve risk assessments too (the insurance policy will cover accidents on the premises of members of the public attending church events).

Churches are surprisingly well organised these days, with safeguarding policies, health and safety policies, etc. Exactly how this is done depends on the denomination. CofE is probably diocese-based. Baptists are church-based, following advice from Baptist House for those in the Baptist Union. Etc. Without knowing the denomination, it’s difficult to say who would be the right person to talk to, but the church will have a website which should contain this info.

Churches also want members of the public to come in. They want to share their faith, so many will offer things like a toddler group as a form of outreach- people come in and lose their fear of church. A church will therefore want the groups they facilitate to be safe spaces. Often, they will provide volunteers - who see the work as their service to God.

When DS was small I went to a British Baptist playgroup with him. A relatively large congregation, they had a paid youth worker and a number of retired ladies running the free group. The volunteers were all DBS checked.

I also went to a German village church playgroup with no church representatives. But the group had excellent knowledge management- each new member knew to secure the door and sweep up afterwards.

If the church is in any way associated with the playgroup, they need to know what happened.

This is the sequence of events if a child dies. It’s unlikely that there won’t be further investigation if a child escapes from a playgroup and is killed. This is why responsible people see safety as important.

As has already been established, the church is only 'associated' with the play group by providing a free venue.

The person organising the group.on a voluntary basis (not from the church) has left.

None of the parents are willing to volunteer to organise it.

It hasn’t been established whose initiative the group is/was. Or whether the church‘s name is associated with the group.

Yesterday's post by the OP at 12.05 states there's no-one running it.

The person running it has left, the parents have continued to meet.

The church would be well advised to end the arrangement.

Lock the doors!

Lock the doors!

It was ultimately your responsibility to keep an eye on your own child. That said, it’s disappointing that the church seemed dismissive of your concerns about the doors being left open.

I help run baby and toddler groups, and we always pay close attention to the ways children can get in and out of the space. If a door is easy for little ones to open, we usually put a stair gate across it. At the very least, the church should recognise the importance of allowing your group to keep doors closed when there are young children running around.

Continuing to run it is still running it! It’s a foolhardy enterprise.

Locked doors are great, until parents open them and let other children out.

Not quite sure how you are fathoming that the church have responsibility. You need to speak with the organiser of the group and keep an eye on your own child. ?

I am one of those parents and it was my fault, nobody else to blame just me and i am big enough to take the blame. Just as in this case the only person to blame is the parent.

No one is running anything, it’s just an empty room in a building that some parents happen to gather in of their own accord at the same time, with no actual “group“ running.

@gozThey are creating the group by turning up. No escaping that.

It is, in effect, an unincorporated organisation. They meet up for a purpose and essentially have a membership. It’s a regular occurrence and it therefore is a legal entity. They are foolish to not follow reasonable procedures for safety and should be clear about what membership involves.

Playgroups work by the parents supervising their child so this is on you. Talk to the organizer though re the open doors.

You are responsible for your child, and you probably signed something to confirm you knew that when you registered. Our registration form specifically warned that some children were able to open the door themselves.

As the group leader, I did position myself so that I would usually spot any child going to open the door, but it was still the parents who were responsible. We didn't have enough volunteers running the group to have someone stationed on the door. We also had an outdoor area, and we made it clear that if a child was outside, then their parent should be too (or have made sure another parent would keep an eye on theirs, if they had two children).

@lanthanum I don’t think anyone has registered children or told them anything. They just seem to congregate and are rudderless. I’m amazed people join in!

This
OP is happy to take and take buy not give back
Wants a village for her DC but doesn't want to be a villager

What are they meant to do, though? They can't lock all of the doors, as nobody would be able to get in to use the building! If the adults who use it leave doors open, what on earth can they do about that - other than order them back to be responsible; or just ban them from using it at all, if none of them can be trusted to observe basic, commonsense safety precautions?

I really hope you don't block off fire doors with baby gates when you organise meetings?!

Double post

She said they were swing doors. Toddlers can get through those open or closed. So yes, some sort of high latch or stairgate would be sensible options..which is what they can do.

We obviously don't put stairgates on fire doors. They're a completely different type of door with push pads and panic bars. None of them are used for general entrances or exits in the halls and rooms where we operate.

I agree it’s a bit of both. The doors shouldn’t be open (a group we go to by a main road puts up a fence style safety gate between the entrance door and the hall as the door is often opened with people coming and going) but if you knew they were open there’s an argument that you should have been keeping a closer eye. That’s said, what happened happened and I appreciate it must have been a huge shock for you and I’m glad that nothing worse happened. Take care of yourself.

In these situations the only person who should be safeguarding your child is you. Doors I such facilities can be opened or closed at anytime and ss we all know toddlers can be fast and sneaky! Please don’t beat yourself up, these things do happen. But also please don’t start trying to look to blame others.