To raise a safeguarding issue with church regarding playgroup?

[Bornunderpunches]

my 2.5 year old son managed to escape the church playgroup. I was just chatting to another mum when I looked up and realised he wasn’t in the hall. He can’t have been longer than 20 seconds from when I’d last seen him and I got up and went looking for him, however being heavily pregnant I’m much slower than him at this point. all the doors were left open and when I got to him he had managed to run across the busy road just about 15 metres from the front door of the church. luckily a passer by had got to him and pulled him out of the road. Ive been going to the group for around a year and nobody in particular runs the group and we’re just left to our own devices, the church has no input whatsoever they just let us use the hall. we buy the biscuits and milk and what not, get all the toys out ourselves and put them away etc. When I told the office in a complete state of shock they were completely dismissive of the issue and said how they leave the doors open for mothers and children to easily access the group and acted like it was nothing to do with them. I just feel like such an awful mother and unsure of how to approach the situation because I don’t know whether this would be considered my fault as the church don’t have anyone supervising the group or the church’s fault for not having more in place for safeguarding in the first place.

I think of the OP wasn't aware that the previous organisers were gone... she could politely bring up the issue and say "Hey, I got a fright and I'd hate for it to happen again, is there anything that can be put in place to try to minimise this"

But she blatantly knew that nobody was running it anymore, didn't want the responsibility herself in fact, and then jumped straight to blaming the Church. The Original Post mentioned nothing about asking them to review or put things in place, just referred to whose fault it was.

If you choose to go somewhere, knowing there is no organisers or volunteers, and don't bother keeping an eye on your 2.5yr old then guidelines won't make a blind but of difference.

@BudgetBuster I still would not want an inquest on the death of a toddler when there were no protocols in place and no attention to health and safety legislation. I would avoid a group with no leadership committee.

Glad he’s ok you’ve obviously had a frightening experience.
The church is just letting you use the space. It sounds like there isn’t anyone there from the church who is running it so it’s up to all the parents to supervise their own children.

I don’t know if the hall is in a separate building but churches are often open all day and anyone can come in and out so attending parents will need to keep a constant eye on things or agree between themselves how to run it.

What needs to change is the parents need to step up and volunteer to organise the group more formally.

Or the Church should withdraw the offer of a free space to meet, as sadly their kindness will misfire if something goes wrong. As the OP shows - along with a number of other posters - they will be blamed and it will be assumed that somehow they 'should' have changed to doors, provided volunteers/ staffed it etc.

The parents need to find a coffee shop or other venue. Sadly that might price some parents out, but that's the price of the blame culture.

This 😂😭

Yes, your would avoid the group.
The OP didnt avoid it... she knew there was no leadership. Refused to help when nobody else was running it. She's been going there a year so obviously knows how the doors operate.

Of course there would be an inquest if a toddler passed away. The likely outcome unfortunately would be that it was an accident with no fault to the Church.

You know where this is going dont you.

The church is trying to help and facilitate mothers with children being able to meet up and let the children play.

If this continues (There is a split of opinions of yes they are responsible/no they arent) then the church then has to

Provide a risk assesment - Churches have open door policies to drug addicts, alcoholics, church goers, you name it they are trying to help. It will need a closed door.

With that will also bring the need for someone from the church to take the responsibility. Who is paying the person for that?

The person will most likely need qualifications and checks. Again who is paying for that?

In the end the church just takes route of least resistance and says they can no longer offer this facility. Everyone loses out.

@Tessasanderson There is a distinction between who rents out a hall and who uses it and for what purpose. The church should rent out the room and have nothing else to do with it or they run it. Most churches I know, run them. If this group hired the room and are separate, they have full responsibility. Not for looking after dc but making sure the venue meets safety regulations by doing a risk assessment. Every group I know does this and it’s not ad hoc like this is.

I’d suspect there was a longstanding booking and volunteer has left and it’s just carried on with people turning up. Church may not have been aware volunteer left in September. I’d suspect church will now require it to be run with a volunteer like before or stop. In all likelihood it will just stop as like Op no one will volunteer.

OP why would you not volunteer for the group if you've been there a year? You can't not volunteer and then complain when things aren't how you want them to be. I ran our local group because there was no one else. For a toddler group that doesn't have to worry about rent there's really not much to it. If you volunteer maybe someone else would agree to volunteer with you, people often prefer not to be responsible alone.

You were responsible for watching your child, but these things happen. Even when there is someone leading a group parents are still responsible for their child in a play group. Please don't complain, it's how these things end up shut down.

The death of toddler off property?
Why would that even lead to an inquest?

Whilst we can all argue the adult should be watching their own child in informal playgroups, I do think the builder's owner (Church and vicar in this case) needs to install handles on the doors at a height above child level to prevent a child "escaping" and being hurt outside the hall.

I'd let the Vicar and the local council safeguarding lead know what happened. You could escalate to the Health and Safety Executive if nothing is done quickly who might add some weight.

There is a standard height for door handles to ensure people with disabilities can still have access.
The government are not going to change building regulations because sometimes very young children are left unsupervised.

The door handles will be the same height in a cafe, library etc. Or shock horror, automatic doors.

Door handles are at a set level for Health & Safety reasons. Nobody will be changing regulations because one parent was too busy chatting.

Quite. It's absurd to suggest promoting one form of H&S - preventing small children from escaping - by directly jeopardising countless other H&S measures. It's not much consolation to hear that everybody was securely trapped inside the burning building, but at least that meant that no unwatched children could escape either.

Little children are one massive H&S risk in human form; there really is no way to keep them safe other than by having a responsible adult fully supervising them constantly.

I see this as no different to playing with DC in a park. There is a space available to play in, but you need to watch your child so that they don’t run off to somewhere unsafe.

@goz What??? The police might be involved too. Of course there would be an inquest in an unexpected death.

Potentially but the result would be that a child was unsupervised near a road.

'I'm surprised THEY leave the doors open '.

There is no they. Every parent is equally as responsible as the next. The ' They' is the OP who didn't see her child run away. Who did she think was watching him?

The only upside of this horrible incident is that now the parents can get together and have a chat about getting more organised to prevent another incident.

Sadly, it doesn't sound like anyone wants to take responsibility though.

What will happen 'quickly' is the Vicar will decide not to.let the group use the room unless someone steps forward to take responsibility for running the group.

Not installation of new handles for a bunch of parents who get the room for free but can't be bothered to volunteer to run it, and then blame the church for their own.lack of organisation and supervision!

That will solve the problem.

He was in your care, the complete responsibility to maintain his safety lies firmly on your shoulders.

What sort of line of inquiry do you think there would be if a toddler was hit by a car in the middle of the road?
It’s beyond obvious who is responsible for the child.
There would be no inquiry into the church as you seemed to be suggesting.

I’d see if the church has a safeguarding lead to ask for advice

you weren’t at a play group it’s no different than you taking the kids to a park your responsibility

ultimately I think the only think the church could do would be be to stop you using the hall doubt they’d start organising it as a proper playgroup and everything that go with it

not twisting the knife but this is on you

This would definitely be considered your fault, you have a 2 yr old you know runs off in a hall you know has no supervision and you managed to let him leave and get across a road. That's definitely a parental non supervision issue. And I say that as someone who was heavily pregnant with a 3 Ur old who was a runner so I absolutely get how hard it is but you cannot take your eyes off him for a second

It shouldn't happen to others if they are adequately supervising their toddlers. I honestly get it but take it as a warning called. Be glad he wasn't hurt. Shake it off and do things differently next time. OR try and enclosed softplay environment or whatever where you don't have to be right on him all the time, that's what I did when heavily pregnant. Good luck.