To raise a safeguarding issue with church regarding playgroup?

[Bornunderpunches]

my 2.5 year old son managed to escape the church playgroup. I was just chatting to another mum when I looked up and realised he wasn’t in the hall. He can’t have been longer than 20 seconds from when I’d last seen him and I got up and went looking for him, however being heavily pregnant I’m much slower than him at this point. all the doors were left open and when I got to him he had managed to run across the busy road just about 15 metres from the front door of the church. luckily a passer by had got to him and pulled him out of the road. Ive been going to the group for around a year and nobody in particular runs the group and we’re just left to our own devices, the church has no input whatsoever they just let us use the hall. we buy the biscuits and milk and what not, get all the toys out ourselves and put them away etc. When I told the office in a complete state of shock they were completely dismissive of the issue and said how they leave the doors open for mothers and children to easily access the group and acted like it was nothing to do with them. I just feel like such an awful mother and unsure of how to approach the situation because I don’t know whether this would be considered my fault as the church don’t have anyone supervising the group or the church’s fault for not having more in place for safeguarding in the first place.

We rent a room in a local church for a bi-weekly group and it's very clear that the church has no responsibility for us and we need our own liability insurance. We are there regularly but that doesn't make it 'their fault' if a child gets hurt or lost or anything really... we have agreed to be in charge during the time we are there and that's how the contract is organised.

I also rented a church hall recently for my daughter's birthday and it was the same - the church was not in charge, I was. And I needed my own insurance.

For this sort of informal thing - it sounds very old fashioned and lovely but I agree with the majority. If you ask too many questions they'll just stop it. And if you aren't willing to volunteer you can appreciate how no one else will want to either so there's no way forward here.

@EstoyRobandoSuCasa They are chatting and don’t notice. My DD just left with theirs and they left the gate open to the road too. She should have been contained in the hall garden but was outside on the pavement. The door was partially hidden by a climbing frame so I could not see her in that moment. Playgroups do need to remind parents of responsibilities.

But who? There's no 'playgroup leader' or anyone really. It's just a bunch of people who decided to meet up in a room. The OP has as much responsibility (or not) as anyone else here.

You are responsible for your own child when they are in your care. If you really think a safeguarding concern should be raised then surely it should be about you.

Why do people not even bother to read the OP before chipppng in with what happens at their entirely different group??

There are no “organisers”
There are no staff
There is no one in charge

"It wasn't your fault" Yes, it really was her fault. OP is the parent therefore responsible for her child's safety. Why on earth do you think it isn't her fault ?

Surely anyone could walk in, shut door or not, it's a church ffs. You need to be more responsible.

Treat it the same as going to the park, only with a roof over your head. They are facilitating meeting up with likeminded people and children. A bit of juice and some biscuits.

If your child speaks to a stranger, hurts themselves running about too fast or runs out of the building/park then thats on the parent.

Sorry, its not cheap childcare or a rest for tired parents. Its a facility that takes away none of your parental responsibility.

I don't think it, I know it. I don't know 1 parent who hasn't lost sight of their child for a few seconds when they were small.

Ok. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t your fault. If she’d lost sight of her toddler at ikea or the park it would be her fault too - not in a judgment way, it’s just a time she’s in charge of her kid and made a mistake. People make mistakes every day - thankfully this one ended well. It’s certainly no one else’s fault that she took her eyes off her child.

It doesn't. But if there is no one renting the room- then surely the church is taking liability for it- as it's happening on their premises whether they have a volunteer to run it or not (and if there is no one running it- my question would be what's the risk of that for the church). My question would be if this can happen on a week day morning- how are they preventing it happening on a Sunday/church meeting. As some tweaks to the church building would help. It could be as simple as a numbered lock on the door to the street- and ensuring a member of church staff sits with a laptop working during entry time.... Or delegating this to a member of the group...
I am not saying that the member of the public isn't responsible for their child. But there would be a bigger health and safety risk assessment that would be questioned if a child got hurt particularly if they knew the church went onto a busy road...
The church would be responsible for that- as they would be asked how a week day coffee morning is different to a Sunday morning.... They would need to have a robust risk assesment for their insurance purposes anyway....

In some ways maybe it would be good if the OP did raise issues with the church as they might want to consider the arrangement of having people hang out at the church 'unsupervised' and whether they should get people to sign a disclaimer. What would happen if a child got hurt on one of the toys that the church allows you to use for example?
I think it might be best to go to an organised group.

If it’s a stay and play set up then parents are responsible for their children. Risk assessments should have been under taken but will rely on parental supervision.

Sorry OP but I don’t think it’s their fault if nobody is actually running it?

it’s a bit like turning up to the park or soft play - each parents helps to remember to shut gates and doors but you look after your own kid.

did you know the doors were open? I think there should be a protocol or reminder of sorts but who would do that? The office person doesnt run the group.

a bigger worry for me is anyone can come in or out. Is there a sign in system or anything?

im glad he’s ok.

Ideas to prevent this happening again- Encourage parents to watch their own children?
Volunteer to run the group?

In terms of what to do -make some signs that remind people to shut the door? They can’t be locked.

maybe just remind each other to keep eye on kids?

im not sure what raising to the church would do as they’re not liable. Though they may start to refuse entry if they get issues.

but better signage could be an idea. It’s horrible when stuff like this happens so I do feel for you.

I think the church does have responsibility as it is their building, whoever organises - ie books the room in the calendar etc has some responsibility and it is a safeguarding issue. They should have childproof - but not adult proof - entry and exit but also they should be making sure that not any tom dick of harry can just wander in. Someone does need to supervise. This was a near miss, what will happen next time - why on earth did no one stop the child sooner.

You are right. I should have written 'it happens' rather than 'it's not your fault.' I just didn't want to make the OP feel any worse than I am sure she already does.

Don't beat yourself up, we have all had a near miss at some point or another. But no, it isn't anything to do with the church's safeguarding policies nor even, I suspect, with the group's. It really is down to the individual to watch their own children in a setting like this.

But I do feel for you, you must have been terrified.

It’s not technically safeguarding. That’s more to do with grooming and unsafe staff. This is health and safety. I do think they maybe need a door monitor. It’s impossible to make chatty parents responsible.

Nothing to do with them - you are the one who was chatting instead of watching your child

you ahve said there aren’t staff

it’s all on you I’m afraid

Yes but at soft play they have a gate for parents to open which stops kids running out. Still parents responsibility but I would say there could be something in place so kids can't just walk out.

So why did you not watch your child?

@ohdear111

Should all venues that accommodate “chatty parents” and their children budget for a door monitor then? Or just churches?

Why?