To raise a safeguarding issue with church regarding playgroup?

[Bornunderpunches]

my 2.5 year old son managed to escape the church playgroup. I was just chatting to another mum when I looked up and realised he wasn’t in the hall. He can’t have been longer than 20 seconds from when I’d last seen him and I got up and went looking for him, however being heavily pregnant I’m much slower than him at this point. all the doors were left open and when I got to him he had managed to run across the busy road just about 15 metres from the front door of the church. luckily a passer by had got to him and pulled him out of the road. Ive been going to the group for around a year and nobody in particular runs the group and we’re just left to our own devices, the church has no input whatsoever they just let us use the hall. we buy the biscuits and milk and what not, get all the toys out ourselves and put them away etc. When I told the office in a complete state of shock they were completely dismissive of the issue and said how they leave the doors open for mothers and children to easily access the group and acted like it was nothing to do with them. I just feel like such an awful mother and unsure of how to approach the situation because I don’t know whether this would be considered my fault as the church don’t have anyone supervising the group or the church’s fault for not having more in place for safeguarding in the first place.

If you raise a ' safeguarding' issue with the church, they would most likely say that they are giving you the space, they aren't childcare or security.

You as a group have been lucky to get away with this for so long without any incident.

You need a safe guarding lead.

You need a qualified child first aider at every group.

You need a health and safety and fire safety rep.

These people need to be named and have their details on a poster

Basically, you need a working committee other wise there's no rules and responsibility for a child's play group and that's a bit bonkers isn't it?

Like someone has said, would you complain to a park keeper if you child ran off in a park whilst you were with friends?

Take this as a wake up call and get organised.

Begging your pardon m’lady I'm sure! 🥱

This sounds, I think, very like a playgroup I go to with my children. Doors from the hall into the corridor/foyer which are closed but not locked (is this what you meant re the ‘swing doors’?) then doors out into the car park which are left open.
Ultimately this is on you. It’s very normal to cast around to blame someone else because you feel bad. You need to be watching small kids all the time, they’re determined to get themselves into mischief if they can but I can fully appreciate this must have been a truly awful shock for you. I wouldn’t be reporting anything, but if I enjoyed the group and was keen to see change, I’d take some responsibility myself, try and make safety changes that way.

I think the most likely result of complaining again to the church is that they cancel the future bookings.

The best advice I've seen on this thread is to treat this as you would a meetup at a playground or Costa or soft play... there isn't anyone in charge except for you so either partner up with another parent and keep an eye on both kids, have a rotating group who takes responsibility each week, or get some proper volunteers organised. I also agree that if no one is in charge, the toys and activities themselves will likely be in a bad state quickly so I'd be careful of this setup for other reasons as well.

Hi OP. I sit on a PCC for a CofE Church. This should be reported as a health and safety near miss incident, if no-one runs the group you probably need to report to the Church.

We have our own safeguarding policy, insurance and safeguarding lead. We also require any group hiring our buildings to supply evidence of the same.

We used to have a Mums and Tots group like this, a couple of elderly members of the congregation would make up squash and biscuits; took responsibility for the toys (buying, checking for damage etc); and collecting 20p from each Mum. Supervision was assumed to be the parents responsibility and there were no formal 'leaders'- it was just a cheap and warm place for kids to meet up and play.

Unfortunately, the world isn't like that any more- there's so much paperwork involved in running something like this and people are much more litigious and officious than they once were. Insurance companies are more jittery as a result. We closed our group and I'm surprised that similar groups are still running. I'd only expect richer churches who can afford a paid youth worker to be doing something like this now.

It's sad in a way because when I was a kid there lots of little groups run by well meaning volunteers in church halls and community centres. Lol at the person who brought up the inevitable 'the whole community is responsible for looking after my child' - funny that people like this never seem to volunteer to step up and help out.

Sounds like you are looking for someone to blame, rather than accepting you was at fault OP

Yes, this. Even if no 'standard' doors are ever left open, they will still legally have to have at least one fire door. The raison d'etre of a fire door is that anybody who can reach up to a height of about 2'6" can very easily push it, open it and get outside unimpeded.

Naturally as well as being a potential lifesaver in case of a fire, this also brings the risk of a young child escaping through it and getting lost/hurt outside - thus vigilant supervision by parents or carers in loco parentis is essential at all times.

It sounds like the church are just letting you use the hall but it's the parents' responsibility to supervise their children.

this plus.... you need to watch your own kid in these settings I find. I just hover with them, its tiring but it is what it is!

I would suggest you ask the church to pay for a stair gate or alternatively the doors get locked 10 minutes after the start time. I know its hard being heavily pregnant with a toddler but unfortunately they are escape artists so you need to watch them constantly. If its not a safe environment maybe look at another toddler group.

You can't lock the doors... thats a fire safety risk.

The Church will just close group instead.

No matter where you go you’re depending on others to have the common sense to shut the door after themselves to keep kids from escaping. I’ve had this issue and I’ve learned I can only depend on myself to keep my child in eye line. Other people just don’t think to shut doors.

I don't think it would be safe to be locked inside a building either though!

That is not the whole point of playgroup. It is a group, where children can play. Clue is in the name. If you want to chat to people without worrying about keeping an eye on your child, you organise a get together without the children.

I’m sure the rest of the parents do keep an eye out for other children, but according to OP it took a split second for her child to escape. What’s the chances all the other parents would have seen it.?

Your child is your responsibility. This is no different to any other space open to the public. The safeguard is that parents keep an eye on their children and don’t get distracted.

Glad he’s ok. If you contact the church I’d suspect they will just stop.
Usually with groups like that there is a volunteer to make sure things run smoothly but volunteering numbers are massively down. You were asked and didn’t volunteer. Assume the other mums said no too.
The church could put a sign up reminding people their offspring are their responsibility at all times but I’d have thought that goes without saying and one by door saying please shut door.
If you don’t like set up then don’t go again.

It would be ok as long as the doors opened from the inside. Our local toddler group always did it with parents sat around the door area

I stopped going to playgroups because not only was I constantly supervising my child who never sat still but I also ended up supervising lots of other unsupervised toddlers too! The door situation isn’t great, but you need to supervise your child. I know that’s a pain in the arse when they’re all over the place. It meant I couldn’t sit down with a nice cup of coffee and chill with the other Mums.

Sorry but as there are no leaders or staff to supervise play its up to the individual parent to supervise their own child .
Would you blame the council because they put a road outside the church or drivers for having cars on the road ?
I get you are looking for someone to blame but it's you .I
Perhaps the exit to the room is where you should be sitting near with at least one eye on your child .

It's not about other parents keeping an eye on your kid. It's about other parents agreeing on systems that keep people a bit safer and give you time to react if something goes wrong. Things like agreeing to keep the doors closed.

"... nobody in particular runs the group and we’re just left to our own devices, the church has no input whatsoever they just let us use the hall. we buy the biscuits and milk and what not, get all the toys out ourselves and put them away etc

When I told the office in a complete state of shock they were completely dismissive of the issue and said how they leave the doors open for mothers and children to easily access the group and acted like it was nothing to do with them"

@Bornunderpunches - These two things are the key issue - it is up to whoever is running the group to decide whether the doors are kept closed. If it is the parents then the you need to speak to the other parents and get them to agree that the doors should be closed.

If the church has nothing to do with the group besides allowing use of the hall then it's not up to the people in the office whether the doors are open or not.

If the church runs the group, then it is absolutely a safeguarding issue that needs to be addressed.

People are right, that it is your responsibility to keep an eye on your child like soft play, but every single soft play I ever took my kids to had safety doors or barriers to stop children running out or non-customers getting in.

Keeping the doors closed is not just about stopping children running out, it is also about deterring people coming in who shouldn't be there.

There are also a number of other issues which need to be considered - is there a sign in / out sheet and who holds it? That is standard fire safety regulations.

You say you use the church's toys - is that covered under the church's public liability should there be any issues or if they space is not being used under an official hire agreement or should the group have their own liability insurance?

Yes. But I think someone suggested that locked doors would solve the problem of children escaping, so they meant they couldn't be opened from the inside.

The parish council are not in charge of the church.

you probably mean the parochial church council and that is only for C of E churches.

The group I go to has enough people running it that there's always someone by the doors. They also started locking the outside doors after the Southport attack.

In this case it sounds like there was no one to watch and the doors weren't secured so you had to be watching more carefully. This will get harder once you've had your baby and have 2 to watch/feed! Hopefully something can be sorted to secure the doors even if it's just a snib lock out of reach of the kids.

Hope you're OK, this must have been a horrible shock and you're probably eaten up by guilt, but your son is safe and at least you will be on guard in the future.

I think this is more similar to being at a library or a leisure centre than a nursery.
You know the doors are unlocked, so it is your responsibility to keep track of your child.

Every playgroup I go to have unlocked doors.

This isn’t a safeguarding issue it’s a parenting issues. You should have been watching your child.